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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:49 am

Flyingdog wrote:FYI: #6 is side-stand/neutral safety relay.

https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oempar ... ectrical-2

And...usually if wire/switch is oil covered, it's cuz the center has separated from the body and nothing came done to stop it. I've tried for grins. And just another little FYI: it's all controlled by a little nub on the shift drum. As you'll notice (if you ever take the safety switch out, sometime) the portion going into the engine moves like the end of an ink pen clicker and makes contact with that shift drum nub to show neutral. One of those..who care's things, huh? :bg:


Thanks Flyingdog.... they arent cheap, are they? blimey. Now, is that the one marked '1NL omron''? 3 red wires and 1 blue wire? i pulled that last night too.... 2 pins are copper 2 pins are green lol. i'll clean that before testing/ putting it back on.

I dont have to worry about the sidestand switch..... a previous owner has cut the wires off that! :ops:

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:10 am

spb2002 wrote:Now, is that the one marked '1NL omron''? 3 red wires and 1 blue wire?


Now..I'm assuming your 88' is the same as my 85', atm. Then I'd say: probly. As I don't recall the number, but that sounds right. Damn, I should as I replaced all five of mine in Jan. Standing on the right side of bike, #6 is next relay left of the 25G (starter cut), then main fuse holder. After that, ya got the fuel pump controller/relay...then flasher/starter cut-off relay. BUT...You may also wanna check out the diode, as most all that jazz flows thru it and that's what controls the neutral switch/light circuit. Now...don't get me too deep in the weeds. :bg: I'm not all that privy on electrical. I'd have to pull out the schematic.
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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:46 am

Flyingdog wrote:
spb2002 wrote:Now, is that the one marked '1NL omron''? 3 red wires and 1 blue wire?


Now..I'm assuming your 88' is the same as my 85', atm. Then I'd say: probly. As I don't recall the number, but that sounds right. Damn, I should as I replaced all five of mine in Jan. Standing on the right side of bike, #6 is next relay left of the 25G (starter cut), then main fuse holder. After that, ya got the fuel pump controller/relay...then flasher/starter cut-off relay. BUT...You may also wanna check out the diode, as most all that jazz flows thru it and that's what controls the neutral switch/light circuit. Now...don't get me too deep in the weeds. :bg: I'm not all that privy on electrical. I'd have to pull out the schematic.


Thanks Flyingdog.... Whichever way you look at it, you know more than me! lol.

Pulled my headlight last night, and saw this;

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/245/0JdcOd.jpg

the blue/red wire at the bottom - to the sidelight - was loose, and the black wire to the right - also to the sidelight - looks nearly cut in half. Apart from that though, all the other wires seem connected. VERY stupidly, i left that relay at work yesterday, so couldnt test anything anyway! doh!

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:44 am

okay.... so i've tested what i believe to be the starter relay - it has 3 red wires and a blue/white wire connected - and this relay works fine. the relay NEXT to it is not working .... this is the blue relay, which i understand to be the sidestand relay. the thing is, the sidestand switch wiring has been cut out. would this relay still stop the engine from firing up? and stop neutral light coming on?

I'd love this to be the solution to my problem! lol..... equally, dont want to buy a new one if it isnt going to do anything.

Any/ all help welcome! thank you.

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:11 pm

spb2002 wrote:okay.... so i've tested what i believe to be the starter relay - it has 3 red wires and a blue/white wire connected - and this relay works fine. the relay NEXT to it is not working .... this is the blue relay, which i understand to be the sidestand relay. the thing is, the sidestand switch wiring has been cut out. would this relay still stop the engine from firing up? and stop neutral light coming on?

I'd love this to be the solution to my problem! lol..... equally, dont want to buy a new one if it isnt going to do anything.

Any/ all help welcome! thank you.



IIRC the side-stand s/s functions by interrupting the ignition system and is deleted by wiring together [completing the circuit] of the wires. [sadly I don't remember the switches 2 wire colors (b/blk??)]
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe

Time flies --- whether you're having fun __ :bike:_ --- or not :fan: - the bad just seems to last longer...

Any day above ground is a good day. sooo "Laissez les bon temps roulez". just roll safely --->

"I hear and I forget,
I see and I remember,
I do and I understand."... Confucius*

"If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you do read the news you are misinformed."
... Mark Twain

“THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated”
...Thomas Paine - 1776 December 23



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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:18 am

mark75 wrote:
spb2002 wrote:okay.... so i've tested what i believe to be the starter relay - it has 3 red wires and a blue/white wire connected - and this relay works fine. the relay NEXT to it is not working .... this is the blue relay, which i understand to be the sidestand relay. the thing is, the sidestand switch wiring has been cut out. would this relay still stop the engine from firing up? and stop neutral light coming on?

I'd love this to be the solution to my problem! lol..... equally, dont want to buy a new one if it isnt going to do anything.

Any/ all help welcome! thank you.



IIRC the side-stand s/s functions by interrupting the ignition system and is deleted by wiring together [completing the circuit] of the wires. [sadly I don't remember the switches 2 wire colors (b/blk??)]


Cheers Mark.... that being the case, the Relay would still be in use i think. I've ordered a replacement and when that comes i'll let you know how i get on.

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Fri May 14, 2021 4:59 am

Well i fitted the replacement Relay, and it made no difference. I can rule that out then.

I'm limited for space in my garage, so i'll see if i can wheel the bike out and get a proper look around... there must be a disconnected wire.

In theory.... is there a single wire that stops the bike from even turning over...AND stops the neutral light coming on... and stops the oil light coming on... and stops the fuel light coming on?

all other lights, indicators and horn work.

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: Timbox3899 » Fri May 14, 2021 6:09 am

If memory serves me right, the blue with white strip wire is the star button trigger. I know I have some lose connection from the OEM sockets in the headlight bucket. I can turn the key on and move the headlight bucket wires around and hear the very last relay click on and off. The last being the one by the back of the bike. I don't know if you have taken all the connectors apart in the headlamp bucket and cleaned them up? If not do that, one at a time. You might find what is causing your issues.

Keep up the good trouble shooting you will get her running.

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: mark75 » Fri May 14, 2021 2:52 pm

if you didn't already, you might double check the main fuse with M/M
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe

Time flies --- whether you're having fun __ :bike:_ --- or not :fan: - the bad just seems to last longer...

Any day above ground is a good day. sooo "Laissez les bon temps roulez". just roll safely --->

"I hear and I forget,
I see and I remember,
I do and I understand."... Confucius*

"If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you do read the news you are misinformed."
... Mark Twain

“THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated”
...Thomas Paine - 1776 December 23



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so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Sat May 15, 2021 1:40 pm

A stroke of luck finally!

i pulled the main fuse... checked with multimeter... no problem there. Looked over wiring again, and i noticed that the red wire from battery to connector (before main fuse) was hanging loose. i re-wired that up, turned the key... and the fuel pump primed, followed by a few relay clicks. pressed starter button and it turned over. no attempt to fire up yet though. i've connected the battery to a charger overnight, that may give it a bit more juice, and i'll play with the choke too.
Big step forward though... at least its trying now! thanks for the help so far guys!

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Sun May 16, 2021 1:56 pm

Okay.... battery charged.... straightened handlebars... bike dead again. turned steering back to the left, and electrics work. weird connection thing to find there, then!

turn key on... fuel pump primes. press starter button, but just hear a whirring sound. Any thoughts on that one, please?

i have a video of this, if it helps;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP5FfBeiXXs

Thanks again!

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Sun May 16, 2021 3:42 pm

Bike blinks on/off by just turning the handlebars? Sounds like loose/crappy connection or bare wire touching, somewhere in the headlight bucket.

Starter clutch, solenoid, starter motor and/or the battery. Even if one thinks the battery is ok, cuz it was just charged, voltage can show being OK, but it's gotta have the "amps". Hook up yer meter to the battery and hit the starter button. See if the readings drop servery and how well the reading recovery. Might have to take off the left cover, remove the starter clutch and see if it has lost it's "one-way" holding grip.
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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sun May 16, 2021 4:57 pm

spb2002 wrote:Okay.... battery charged.... straightened handlebars... bike dead again. turned steering back to the left, and electrics work. weird connection thing to find there, then!

turn key on... fuel pump primes. press starter button, but just hear a whirring sound. Any thoughts on that one, please?

i have a video of this, if it helps;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP5FfBeiXXs

Thanks again!



:yup:
and your video sounds just like my '86-700 did when the starter clutch died.
#1 >>> https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/yam ... ter-clutch
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe

Time flies --- whether you're having fun __ :bike:_ --- or not :fan: - the bad just seems to last longer...

Any day above ground is a good day. sooo "Laissez les bon temps roulez". just roll safely --->

"I hear and I forget,
I see and I remember,
I do and I understand."... Confucius*

"If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you do read the news you are misinformed."
... Mark Twain

“THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated”
...Thomas Paine - 1776 December 23



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine alone and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members,
so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Mon May 17, 2021 3:46 am

Flyingdog wrote:Bike blinks on/off by just turning the handlebars? Sounds like loose/crappy connection or bare wire touching, somewhere in the headlight bucket.

Starter clutch, solenoid, starter motor and/or the battery. Even if one thinks the battery is ok, cuz it was just charged, voltage can show being OK, but it's gotta have the "amps". Hook up yer meter to the battery and hit the starter button. See if the readings drop servery and how well the reading recovery. Might have to take off the left cover, remove the starter clutch and see if it has lost it's "one-way" holding grip.


Thanks Flyingdog. i'll doublecheck the battery, but it is brand new so would be disappointed if it was that. Easiest thing to check though, so that first. Thanks :D

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Mon May 17, 2021 3:48 am

mark75 wrote:
spb2002 wrote:Okay.... battery charged.... straightened handlebars... bike dead again. turned steering back to the left, and electrics work. weird connection thing to find there, then!

turn key on... fuel pump primes. press starter button, but just hear a whirring sound. Any thoughts on that one, please?

i have a video of this, if it helps;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP5FfBeiXXs

Thanks again!



:yup:
and your video sounds just like my '86-700 did when the starter clutch died.
#1 >>> https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/yam ... ter-clutch


Thanks Mark75. Just checking - mine is the XV1000.... will it have the same starter clutch assy as the XV1100 of the same year? Thanks again!

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Mon May 17, 2021 4:07 am

spb2002 wrote: will it have the same starter clutch assy as the XV1100 of the same year?


Yep....#2 idler has been upgraded though. If ya go new. Yamaha (or somebody) finally realized the spring, on Gen II setups, was totally redundant, cuz they (Gen II) use a drive lever to slide the gear (back & forth) along the starter wheel splines.

Flyingdog wrote:Starter clutch, solenoid, starter motor and/or the battery.


Why starter clutch was listed first. They're usually the first thing to go south on ya.

Also want to point out..you having a XV1000 maybe a problem, concerning the clutch. The new (# 3LP-W1551-00-00) will "NOT" work on (84-85'/US models) 1000s. Cuz of the number of gear teeth. Now, that being said...if you do go this route, you're going to have to research your 88' or actually count the teeth on your original starter clutch. I can only go by "my" 1000, cuz I have no idea bout yours. IE: 84-85' 1000 (US) starter clutch have 19 teeth (#5A8-15517-00-00) and 86'-up (1100) and 700/750s (but forget which years)... have 18 teeth (the 3LP number). It's a mind bender for sure... :cl:
Last edited by Flyingdog on Mon May 17, 2021 4:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Mon May 17, 2021 4:12 am

Thanks again Flyingdog. I'll start by finding that rogue wire connection, and then i'll pull the left hand cover as suggested and see whats going on.

I've had a quick look at prices for the starter clutch assy here in the Uk.... I'm looking at approx. £60 secondhand, or £200 brand new....

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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Mon May 17, 2021 8:41 am

spb2002 wrote:£200 brand new....


Yea..but that's that #3LP part, that don't work for me. Which was kinda weird, as the idler/starter wheel combo also started with #3LP...and...they "do" work. Odd Ah-well, everything works hunky-dory, so don't think about it anymore. :bg:
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Re: My first problem is starting the bike

PostAuthor: spb2002 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:23 am

Just a small update really. I've ordered a starter clutch so that should be coming next week i think.

I've been thinking about the wiring..... the condition is pretty poor, and looks a mess. My intention had been to try and get the bike running, then strip it down and do the bare bones wiring (i'm doing a bobber build).

now... rather than doubling my work, i'm going to do the bare bones wiring first. that way, i'll know that the cables are all connected properly, wiring will be good condition, and the only issue will be my actual competence at doing it!

I've seen the bare bones wiring diagram and step by step guide - i'm pretty sure i can follow that, so yeah... thats where i'm at.

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