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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:37 pm

This looks like a 2 brush kit, but it might be worth while to contact them to see if they carry the 4 brush kits.
http://www.emsglobaldirect.com/product. ... ductid=391
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:44 pm

street i found that ebay link. i saw the 500 listed. wonder if it will adapt to my 750?.........dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: Marvelicious » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:48 pm

bstig60 wrote:If you have the 4 brush starter, you can replace the long shaft with the short shaft, I believe and get the 4 brush in the early 750 that way.


Which pretty much tells me it is a possibility.

OTOH, I googled around a bit last night and found some other discussions, here's one pertaining to the V-max, which I think we share a starter with. Not promising, read the last post...
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: kiwibob » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:07 pm

Marvelicious wrote:OTOH, I googled around a bit last night and found some other discussions, here's one pertaining to the V-max, which I think we share a starter with. Not promising, read the last post...


Here's the post Marv is referring to from VentureRider.Org...

The windings are configured differently. All 4 windings on the two brush starter are connected in series. On the 4 brush starter there are two windings each in 2 separate circuits.

If you look at the pictures above, there are 2 positive wires going down to the windings, 1 on each positive brush 180 degs. apart. It would be difficult to reconfigure these windings.

There is a hole on the negative brush holder that I can use for the extra ground wire. It is shown a little better in picture below. The negative brush at 6 o'clock position has a hole just to right of it that can be used.

Gary


four-brush-plate.jpg


That kinda makes sense. Having said that, our two-brush starters do have four field windings, so it maybe possible to rewire them, though the level of effort is starting to get up there. I'll take a look tonight and post a photo or two.

If it looks feasible then I'll happily sacrifice the $30 to give it a bash.

Steve.
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1981 XV750 - Cafe/Rat with 1100 engine (Wilma)
1981 XS400 - Cafe project (Russ)
1983 CX650E Long-term sidecar project
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: madhatter4119 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:27 pm

kiwibob...we are right behind you...thanks for going first...Great useful mod if it can be done...That dan (TRV) is always
thinking...Our Guru...Good Luck
Current Toys...
2000 Vulcan 1500 E3 (CVK40 Single Carb-love it) Riding/sold
1996 Vulcan 1500 88 Project...got it running and sold
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82 Virago 750 Parts Bike
82 Virago 920 Project Bike

Boy do I ever need to stop buying bikes...Know a good Doctor ???

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: 1986 XV700 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:38 pm

Dan,
The Norton info was purely for reference that others have put four brush kits onto old Norton starters with only two field windings. It would be the equivalent to you putting a four brush kit into your starter with two field windings. I have absolutely no idea if a Norton brush holder will even come close to fitting a Virago starter. I do think the eBay version is your best bet for an adaptation. Another option would be to find someone with a blown starer off of a newer Virago and get there four brush holder and try it.
Scott

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:43 pm

ok gotcha. yea i am thinking of wasting some money on the 500 4 brush kit (ebay) and see if i can get it to work.
but i think kiwibob may get the jump on me. i wont have the money for a while........ dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: 1986 XV700 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:24 pm

How about the option of buying a new/rebuilt 4 brush starter for $95 with free shipping on eBay

Here is the sellers Website withe the same starter as above.

Look in the description of either web page and it will tell you which years and engine sizes are covered. If you do the following Google searches it even give you more choices for cases to use with your rotor or end covers and also the internal parts that will fit inside the starter; like brush holders:
Mitsuba SM2241
Mitsuba SM 13445
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:07 pm

well here is the kicker scott.
i am upgrading the bride (82xv750) with the 2nd gen starter system. going to try using the original 82 xv750 starter. if i cannot get it to work then i am going to the 1000 starter long nose.
BUT if i CAN upgrade the 82 xv750 starter from a 2 brush to a 4 brush i will do this for red. due to i cannot upgrade to a second gen starter for her... IF i can do a 4 brush for red it may help in the box of rocks (a little)..........dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: 1986 XV700 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:25 pm

Sorry about the long delay Dan, been busy working on the house.

I'm sure that you might see some benefit from installing a 4 brush setup into you starter. It only stands to reason that two more points of contact inside the starter should help. A true 4 brush starter has 4 stator poles or magnets to help the 2 additional brushes do their job. The magnets require no power from the battery for the starter to operate. The 2 brush starters will draw additional power from the battery to energize the field coils in along with the coils on the rotor. The 2 brush to 4 brush mod that you are attempting will now have the field coils energized, the original rotor windings energized, and the the rotor windings supplied by the 2 additional brushes energized.

I'm not an expert on this subject and whether or not the power gain of having two more brushes energizing additional rotor windings offsets any losses from voltage drop due to energizing the additional windings. I'd be interested in finding out though.
Scott

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* Vance & Hines Exhaust
* V Charger Air Filter
* 1-1/4" Drag Bars
* harley Controls
* MC Enterprises Highway Bar
* Kuryakyn Pegs
* Smart Blink Flasher -http://www.cadentech.com-
* KJS Intake and Mikuni HS40 Carb
* Hard bags hanging on custom supports
* Facebook profile -http://www.facebook.com/Scott.Man- let me know your from VT

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:07 pm

thank you scott
i also have been busy. wife ruptured her lower back disc. so when i get off of work. i play MR. mom.
also doing a 2nd gen starter upgrade to the bride (82 xv750). plus building another project. plus finding time to sleep. lol.
the 4 brush got put on hold for a little bit. but will get to it i promise.........dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: kiwibob » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:55 am

I'm keen to have a closer look into it too, but it's not at the top of my list either. This one might have to wait until after my bikes are in fewer than a thousand pieces!
1981 XV750 - Cafe/Rat with 1100 engine (Wilma)
1981 XS400 - Cafe project (Russ)
1983 CX650E Long-term sidecar project
2000 ZX-12R - Project
1991 KLR650 [sold!]
1982 XV920 - Hageman-style cafe [sold!]
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:59 am

kiwibob wrote:This one might have to wait until after my bikes are in fewer than a thousand pieces!


:bg: lol.. that is so true....dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: madhatter4119 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:29 am

I have a buddy ( Dean ) that runs a salvage warehouse for bikes here in Balto Md...He told me he see a lot of aftermarket 4 brush starter problems...they over heat and burn out in the brush area...he rattle off all the terms...but I can't remember just how he said it...but the wiring
isn't the best...
Current Toys...
2000 Vulcan 1500 E3 (CVK40 Single Carb-love it) Riding/sold
1996 Vulcan 1500 88 Project...got it running and sold
2003 Honda VTX 1800 (S) Abandoned Project or Parts Bike...Now my daily rider...LOVE IT !!!
82 Virago 750 Parts Bike
82 Virago 920 Project Bike

Boy do I ever need to stop buying bikes...Know a good Doctor ???

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http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: Streetmedik » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:39 am

I am watching this one too as I dont have extra pieces to play with my self.... Assuming we ever get to go back home from the hospital.
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:43 am

so more or less what he is saying is..
if it is a factory 4 brush starter its good.
if making a 2 brush into a 4 brush. look for future problems?.....dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: Streetmedik » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:01 am

It would be interesting to take each apart and see exactly what the differences are.
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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: madhatter4119 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am

I'll be going to see him Monday or Tuesday...I'll be sure to pick his brain and get more info...I'm very interested in this also...and since I just bought
a after market starter...I don't want to replace it in 18 months or less if I do this mod...
Current Toys...
2000 Vulcan 1500 E3 (CVK40 Single Carb-love it) Riding/sold
1996 Vulcan 1500 88 Project...got it running and sold
2003 Honda VTX 1800 (S) Abandoned Project or Parts Bike...Now my daily rider...LOVE IT !!!
82 Virago 750 Parts Bike
82 Virago 920 Project Bike

Boy do I ever need to stop buying bikes...Know a good Doctor ???

Free Manuals
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545
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I have a basement full of Virago parts and crap
Sex: Male

Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: ZDW9891 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:16 pm

Hey I've been watching the forum for some time and this thread is really pertinent to my issues on my xv750j. Has anyone made progress with the repair kit?

My bike was not charging well and had the starter crunch many other virago owners have talked about across the internet. In fact, it got so bad that I couldn't take a 10 minute ride without the bike bogging down and dying if I wasn't moving. So, I replaced the stator and the compression spring on the starter #2 engagement sleeve and installed two 1mm washers that Virago engineered to reduce the amount of time the starter gear could spin before engaging the flywheel. The result was a strong start up with no starter crunching at all. The bike did act out of tune though. I figured this might just be a readjustment in the pilot circuit on my bike because I finally had a properly charging circuit. So today I took my bike to a buddy's garage to use his sync and color tune tools, but after trying to crank the bike over about 3 times the starter stopped responding all together. I checked the battery and I was still getting 11.67 volts when I tried to crank over but the starter did not respond at all. I thought maybe it was my starter button so I tried to bypass at the solenoid. I had a hot connection but the starter still did not respond. I figured maybe something was jammed up so I removed the starter motor, leaving the planetary gears portion still in the bike. On the bench I ran a 12v connection through the starter connecting where the starter wire connects and ground on the body. The motor did not turn at all. I am thinking that I fried the starter with all the times I was trying to tune the carbs a few months ago, thinking my running issues were just the carbs.

I would like to know if I bought the $25-$30 repair kit i could fix a burnt out starter. I don't know for sure, but from the way the system acted, I have power on the bike, but the starter motor itself is unresponsive. Thanks for any feedback!

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Re: Replacement Starter Brushes

PostAuthor: Caom » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:17 pm

totallyredvirago wrote:thank you scott
i also have been busy. wife ruptured her lower back disc. so when i get off of work. i play MR. mom.
also doing a 2nd gen starter upgrade to the bride (82 xv750). plus building another project. plus finding time to sleep. lol.
the 4 brush got put on hold for a little bit. but will get to it i promise.........dan

Hi, did you guys replace the 2 brush starter into 4? I have a question, I replaced the 2 brush for a 4 brush starter from EBay ... And it feels like the battery doesn't have enough juice, (lithium small battery for a cafe) does this 4 brush starter need more juice?? Or any other changes on this swap? Thank you
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