Forum Donations
Search
VTF Google Search
 Click Here

96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

Technical Virago Help Topics
  • Advertisement

Post a reply

96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:28 pm

I have a 1996 Virago 535
VIN: JYA3JCE08TA050613

I got it on a swap for some furniture. It had been sitting for a few years. It had no carburetors. I shopped around and bought a set of rebuilt carbs. I installed them with new carb boots, changed the oil, put in a new air filter, new battery, new fuel filter, checked all fuel lines... all are clear, new seals in the petcock, spark plugs look great.

Problem #1... The bike cranked but fuel never pumped. I figured it had been sitting for so long the pump was probably bad. I ordered a new pump. Still won't pump. I checked for power on the relay, both red wires are hot, one of the blue wires is hot, when I turn on the ignition and hear the first click in the relay, the second blue wire is hot, then after it clicks again, it's not hot anymore. I'm guessing that's the relay closing then opening. I hooked up the pump directly to the battery, it vibrated and pumped fuel to the carb. I then hooked the pump back up the way it is supposed to be... it won't pump. I checked the current going to the pump, it was around 12v (using an analog meter). Like I mentioned before, the fuel pump relay clicks, then after a few seconds it clicks again. Each time it clicks, the fuel pump also makes a thump sound. It just never does the vibrating thing and pumps fuel. So the question I have about the fuel pump problem is this... How is the pump supposed to know if the carbs need more fuel in order to start pumping again anyway?

Problem #2... I am not getting either spark plug to give a spark. The plugs look great. They are the 8 by the way, not the 7. Hotter plug I think, right? Anyway, the primary winders on the ignition coils are 5 ohms and the secondary winders are 20,000 ohms, which seemed really high to me. The test was done after warming them up with a hair dryer. Also, I do get power (tested with test light) from the wires that hook up to the coils. The spark plug wires look great. The wire connectors look ok, not all shiny and new looking, but not bad either. However, the metal posts that the mounting bracket bolts onto are really crappy looking (some rust)... are those also serving as grounds? If so, could that be why I'm not getting a spark?

Now, some weird stuff... On this bike, there are two throttle cables. A push pull system? The one cable on the right side hooked up to the carbs no problem at all. The other cable also coming from the accelerator handle grip (what the hell is the actual name for that anyway? I'm new to bikes) goes along the left side and hangs near the carbs. But there is nowhere to hook that up. Also, the carbs setup doesn't seem to need another cable because it's working on a spring system. The carb assembly operates just fine without that cable. Also, there are two wires hanging on the right side by the carbs, each wire has a connector on it. But there is nothing on the carbs to hook them up to.

So now my questions about the weird stuff is, with this type of bike, was there originally a carb setup that had no springs, required the push/pull throttle cable system and had some kind of electronic sensors in the float bowls to tell the pump to turn on and off?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Oh, one more thing... the fuel pump relay is a four wire... exactly like the UK model. I just noticed the other day that it seems like the wiring is the same as the UK model. I even compared the fuse block... UK. Some of the harness wrapping has some red on it, like a red spray paint over spray... my entire bike is black :-\ I mention this wondering, is there any way to get all this to work with what I have? Or should I part it all out. I haven't spent too much that it would bother me. I just don't want to spend more and it still won't work right.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: Cusstout 1100 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: throttle cables. It looks like Yamaha changed to the dual cables on the 535s after 1993, so my guess is the carbs you purchased were from a bike of pre-1994 that used the single cable set-up. Not sure, but you should maybe look into changing the throttle grip/cable assembly to suit the carbs you have. Here's a link to a micro-fiche parts list for the XVs - you can search by inserting the year you want to look at and then clicking on the model. A useful tool.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com ... 535-VIRAGO
My Ride, '97 XV1100, +14, 10" over forks, progressive rear, Jardine forward controls, cobra slip-ons, K&N Filter, Dyno Jet Stage 1, Kuryakin grips, heat demon heaters, custom fabricated seat, chrome side covers, bullet signals, risers, custom modified rear fender with modified FZ1 tail light, sectioned and reversed front fender, custom paint...

Image

Cusstout 1100
Silver Membership
Silver Membership
 
Posts: 1004
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:37 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 1997 xv1100 Virago
1987 xv535 Virago
1985 xv1000 Virago

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:35 pm

That little bit of info is extremely useful for the throttle cable part. I have been looking at a couple sites that have the same sheets but for the 1996, it shows two cables. I never thought to look at another year. So, for now, I do have the extra cable tucked away. If the bike ever runs, I will swap out the grip with the right one for this carb. Now as far as the carb goes, I will still need to find out, on a 1996 is there something on the carbs that any wires would plug into? We'll see what other people say.

Thank you for that info.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: Cusstout 1100 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:25 pm

Those two mystery wires could be for carb heaters; apparently some models had that accessory on them - U.K. models, I think.
My Ride, '97 XV1100, +14, 10" over forks, progressive rear, Jardine forward controls, cobra slip-ons, K&N Filter, Dyno Jet Stage 1, Kuryakin grips, heat demon heaters, custom fabricated seat, chrome side covers, bullet signals, risers, custom modified rear fender with modified FZ1 tail light, sectioned and reversed front fender, custom paint...

Image

Cusstout 1100
Silver Membership
Silver Membership
 
Posts: 1004
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:37 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 1997 xv1100 Virago
1987 xv535 Virago
1985 xv1000 Virago

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:32 pm

About 15-20 minutes ago I finally saw something about those. Someone in the UK said they aren't needed there, but maybe on the Canada models. So for now, I will forget about those wires and assume the carb will be ok for this bike. Now on to the no spark problem and no fuel pumping problem.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:29 am

Good parts diagrams here; www.partzilla.com . Lets deal with one thing at a time. First Spark: Make sure all the connections, grounds etc. are clean and shiny. Primary coil winding should be 4.3 ohms; secondary is 13000 + 5000 ohms for the resistor in the plug cap. So about 18K total. Remove the resistor from the plug cap and clean it and the spring. Remove the plug cap from the wire by unscrewing it and cut about 1/2"/10mm of it and put the plug cap back on. Now see if you get spark.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13505
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:42 pm

I'm about to clean the connections. But first I tried a new multimeter I got today. Digital, don't have to select 10k, 200, 200k, etc, etc...

I tested the battery, it measured 12v. When I tested the line going to the fuel pump, as I turned on the bike and the relay clicked, it measured 11.13v.

I tested the ignition coils. Primary on both measured 4.3ohms. Secondary measured 21k ohms and 23k ohms.

Going to go clean now.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:50 pm

Connections are cleaned. Still no spark. The coil secondaries ohm readings are higher than what they should be. Bad coils then? Someone with experience will need to tell me because I have no idea. And again, I tested the battery, 12.4v. Tested the line to the fuel pump, 11.13v. This time I even tested the two red and black wires going to the fuel pump relay... 11.13v. So, the relay clicks which makes the pump click and the power rating to and from the relay are the same. I would say the relay and pump are fine. So, one of the red and black wires comes to the relay from the TCI. I've cleaned all connections to the TCI and all other relays and what-not under the cover. They're all drying now. I'll check it out in a bit to see if the power is any better.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:33 pm

If you don't have spark, make sure you have power on the R/W wire to each of the coils. Clean those connectors too.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13505
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:39 pm

Here's what I've cleaned... fuel pump connector, all connectors to all parts where the fuel pump relay is, including the ignitor (TCI?), the coil connectors including the mounting posts and the spark pluug wires. It's all back to gether. I still only get 11v to the fuel pump relay, too many ohms on the secondary winders and no spark.

Think the whole problem could just be the Ignitor? Is there a way you know of to test it? I heard there isn't.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:57 pm

No way to test the Igniter without a known good replacement. Have you checked the PU coil??
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13505
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:03 pm

Like 5 minutes ago I read somewhere that I need to test that. And as far as I can tell, that's the last thing to test. So if it is good and if the power going to the TCI is good, but coming from it is lower, then the TCI is no good most Likely.

I'm pretty much done for today. I will need to look at the book and see where the pickup coil is. I may get to it tomorrow night if it won't take long.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:14 pm

There is a procedure in the service manual for checking the PU coil. You can check for spark another way; remove the plugs and ground the tip with a clip lead to the jug. Remover the coil cover and disconnect the grey and orange wires from the coils. Mark them so you remember which one goes where, Then turn on the ignition switch, take your meter or a test lamp and make sure you have 12 volts on the R/W wire on each coil, then, using another clip lead with one end on a good ground, momentairly touch that lead to the wire post on the coil where the orange wire was, you should see spark on the #1 plug. Repeat on the other coil.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13505
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:45 am

Wow, it's been a while since I was on here last. Here's an update... I got a new TCI. When I put it on, I tested for a spark. I got a spark. I tested first by using the test light. I put it on the orange wire and turned over the engine, it pulsed. When I tried on the gray wire, it pulsed. Then I tried with a screwdriver in the plug wire and touched the screwdriver to the head... I saw a spark. Then I tried with the plug touching the head... I still got a spark. Also, my fuel pump started pumping. So everything seemed good! I put the plugs in, hooked everything up and tried to start the bike. It wouldn't start. Then I checked the compression... something I really should have done already. Compression was low, 70 on both cylinders. The previous owner said there was a valve job done just before the bike sat for a long time. The mechanic knew it would be sitting for a while. I decided to check the valves. They were WAY out of adjustment. I adjusted all 4 valves. Now the compression is at 80. Still not enough. But, just because I wanted to make sure everything was still fine as far as sparking goes, I checked the plugs again... NO SPARK! And when I use the test light on the orange and the gray wires, I get a solid light! No pulsing light!

I tested the PU coil. With an analog multimeter on the lowest DC setting, with both multimeter probes on the PU wires, when I try to start the bike, the needle moves... just a tiny bit which I hear is normal. I was told that is the PU giving the signal to the TCI.

Now, I really feel like just parting the thing out. Sick of working on this bike. But, I don't mind giving one last shot. Any ideas? Could a shorted wire somewhere have burnt out the new TCI? The pump still works so if the TCI is bad already, maybe just not as bad as the old one. Blah, I don't know.

Suggestions?
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:37 am

Did you check the ignition fuse? Do you have power on the R/W wire to the coils and TCI?
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13505
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:48 am

The fuse is fine. There is power on the r/w leads to the coils. I'll have to check the wires at the TCI tonight.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:06 am

Clean the connectors to the TCI and check the ground (blk wire), to make sure it is good. How did you check your compression? It should be done with the both plugs removed and grounded and the throttle wide open. Otherwise you will get a false reading.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13505
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:10 am

All connections are clean. I did that not long ago. I did a lot of reading today and realized I need to have the throttle wide open when checking compression, I never had it open. I will retry tonight. Otherwise, I've tried with plugs out and a little MMO in the cylinders.

I'll also check the ground wire tonight.

Thanks
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 96 Virago 535 - No spark and fuel pump not pumping

PostAuthor: speedygeek » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:02 am

Sorry for all the delays. I finally got all this stuff fixed.

  • The fuel pump... The fuel pump was bad. I got another one.
  • No spark... The CDI was bad. I got a new one from Germany for around $190 US. Also the ignition coils were weak, I got new ones super cheap off eBay
  • Low compression... well, I'm sure I could have sprayed some starting fluid in the carbs and it would have started since after my fix I still had the same low compression and had to spray it in there to get it started the first time anyway. But, if I had done that without my fix, I'm sure the engine would have been tore up/leaked/vibrated WAY too much. It was missing some mounting bolts, loose bolts internally, one valve wouldn't close all the way. Anyway, I pulled the engine, honed the cylinders, did valve jobs on both heads, new gaskets. The bottom end was super clean. Threw it all back together, a small spray of starting fluid and it fired right up... runs smooth :-)

I rode the bike around the block once and everything seemed fine. Then I rode it again... the throttle seems to stick and the front brakes suddenly froze up and down I went. So, after replacing all broken parts, it's been sitting a while. This weekend I will fix the front brakes and trace down why the throttle seems to be way too high after it warms up.

I'll open a new thread if I need more help.
User avatar
speedygeek
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Signal Mountain, Tn Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Yamaha Virago 535
Sex: Male



Post a reply


  • Advertisement

Return to Virago Help "Tech"

Who is online

Registered users: No registered users