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Starting issue (SOLVED)

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Starting issue (SOLVED)

PostAuthor: buster711 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:45 pm

Hi folks, I am replacing the starter clutch on a 1998 XV1100 and misplaced the "Spring Clips" that act as brakes to stop the start clutch and middle idler gear @ flywheel from spinning....Could not find them anywhere on line so ended up ordering ones from what appeared to be the same diagram but for a 750 (or maybe it was a 920) But ANYWAY once together all I get is a CLICK when pushing start button...So figuring since the clip was so hard to install on the starter clutch that it was likely keeping it from moving at all...so disassembled and switched clips from idler gear to starter clip and still was a bit hard to get the clip into the slot and seems like the idler gears not lining up enough to install the the lever that pulls the gear when needed...
So my question is does anyone know where to get the exact fit "Spring Clips" for this thing...As i mentioned it is not found in any diagram and chat guy on "Motosports" site just asked if I was in need of the ones I showed him in the diagram for the diff bike...THEN said I may have luck searching E bay or amazon...DUH....the guy ignored the fact that his site (as well as all others) show no part where surely there are or these bikes would be shredding the gears much faster than they already have the problem with....
Thanks in advance for any help you folks can provide,
Buster
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:18 pm

buster711 wrote:the the lever that pulls the gear when needed...


So...you're apparently still using the bendix starter setup. If so...there have been no brake clips used since the 1100 was introduced in 86'. Goes for all Gen ll Viragos.
Last edited by Flyingdog on Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:20 pm

I guess you're talking about the circlip #2? ---> https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/yam ... ter-clutch

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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Hmm..for some odd reason I though he was talk'n about the brake clips..not the circle clip..Weird, couldn't see how that would put that much force on the clutch. It's not meant to come to a friction type stop. There's nothing to touch it, once the idler gear pulls back. Oh well...stranger things. Whelp..back to my carpet cleaning...now that's one big pita. :ops:
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:48 pm

As was stated, there are no braking clips on the 1100 starter clutch. I understand you ordered circlips for the starter clutch for a 920 or 750 early model. See item 8. https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamah ... ter-clutch
If this is what you ordered, they will not work on the Generation ll starter system. Remove the clip you have installed and your starting system should work... I am curious where you installed the clip.....
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:57 pm

Hi, thanks for the replies..First off No it was not the "circlip" I understand that to be a small circle holding things from falling off....The solution bstig60 has makes more sense..Since it is not showing up in any diagrams for this bike...I had put the bigger end of the Spring clip around the groove in the starter clutch and the thinner loop into the slot that is in the engine case for what should be a perfect fit but was hard to push in without pressure from a screw driver...Then I put the big partial loop of other clip around the idler gear where the video from I think "chiefpep" or something like that showed and the smaller elongated loop into the slot in the engine case where it obviously belonged....Since you say this is not needed Guess I will put it back without them and perhaps it shall work as it should...Hope so...Trust your judgment way more than mine bstig60. Question now is since I am not upgrading the Bendix do I still need that actual "SPRING" that was around the Bendix gear?
Thanks as always for all your help
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:17 pm

went back and see that those ARE called "circlips"..must have been looking at another one lately because I saw Spring clip listed ...
So I am guessing that the lever that has a rod and a half circle (crest moon like) in the middle goes in the groove on the inner side of the idler gear that comes out to turn flywheel ? going to put it back together and hopefully fires right up.
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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2001 Intruder 1400
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:34 pm

You got it! The drive lever goes in the groove on the #2 idler gear. That connects to the solenoid pivot arm and that throws the gear set into the flywheel. I would suggest leaving the spring in place, Some have removed it without problems, but do it at your own risk. The later design of the #2 idler gear set doesn't use the spring. BTW; There is an O ring that goes on the end of the idler gear shaft to hold things in place during reassembly. Any O ring that will fit the shaft will do...
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamah ... ter-clutch
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:55 pm

Thanks Bill, I figured the lil o ring was for assembly since it does not appear to be strong enough or positioned as to serve any other purpose. Matter of fact on first reassemble I noticed I had forgotten it but since all was in correct fit just figured what it was for. Had things nearly back together when realized I put the drive lever in backwards leaving no hole to put the screw that fits flush on the bearing for what I guess is the pivot arm...One dumb thing after another on this repair....Frustrated at having to tear all down again so came in for coffee, to read your info (always helps) and grab the battery that has been on trick charge and is holding 13.48 since last night.. and glad I have another gasket just in case oil leaks from on/off of the side cover...
As Always I am really thankful for your guidance and expertise through the years on this as well as my 01 Intruder 1400 that has a "no start" issue without even a "click" on full charge....But it will be on the "repair block" after I at least get this one (the usually reliable Yamaha) on the road...Other than batteries, tires and a starter every few years it has served me well for well over a decade.
Thanks again for your guiding me through this.
Buster
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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SOLVED

PostAuthor: buster711 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:38 pm

FINALLY !!! :): After weeks of trying different things, adding things etc. Thanks to Bill it was withdrawing the spring clips (or circlips) that were squeezing the middle starting gear and starter clutch that fixed the problem....Without running since spring of 2018 it fired up before the first revolution of the engine completed...Now just have to put back the misc. stuff that needed moved and removed to access inside of side cover....Then it's on to the 01 Intruder 1400 that will not start...Has to be something in the wiring on that one...It has sat more than been ridden in the 8+ yrs owned it...Unlike the Yamaha that as mentioned before other than little expected things has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned...
Thank You Bill for the needed advice that turned out to be the solution ....
Sincerely,
Buster
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 2:36 pm

Hi again, during install of parts removed to access the starter clutch I have run into a weird issue..
Took a pic but having trouble moving it from phone to computer...
ANYWAY when trying to reconnect the clutch cable it seems the strange "nut" type thing with a small groove for the lever to rest on @ the cable adjusting screw must have moved because I cannot get the lever to go onto the resting place for it...Talking about the tiniest amount of room that it moved - like perhaps 1/32 of an inch or even less....Was tempted to try moving it up with vice grips but thought better not for it could strip or snap something inside the case....There is a small pin that is in the way of the other end of the lever keeping me from getting it to the correct position to rest the lever hole on the grooves of the screw.
I hope this "mini-novel is an accurate description of the problem....More so I am hoping someone has solved this issue & can help me with it...
As ALWAYS thanks in advance for your help,
Buster
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:10 pm

Select the photo and send it via email to your computer, then save it where you can find it. Then you can post it using the Upload Attachment at the bottom of this page.

Glad we could be of assistance in getting your problem resolved.
I had a '05 Intruder 800 that I sold a few years back. Good bike if you like the harley look. Can't say much for the way they ride. Your problem with it may be just a fuse or a loose connection.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


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Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:25 pm

Thanks Bill, have not gotten to the Intruder yet...Still putting back the Yamaha - Almost finished but the piece of metal with a connect tab for clutch cable on one end and a hole on one end that goes on a "nut" like stud over the adjustment screw for the clutch. Has a small grove for it to rest on has me stumped...I guess all the remove/replace of the side cover must have moved that thing to where the "handle can't go on because it's blocked on the rear part permanent stud that likely secures the clutch cable cover along with the side cover.
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
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2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:40 pm

Which item are you talking about... https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamah ... 00k/clutch
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

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bstig60
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Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:51 pm

Screenshot_2019-05-03 Mail - buster v - Outlook.png
Screenshot_2019-05-03 Mail - buster v - Outlook.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
User avatar
buster711
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:46 pm
Location: Aliquippa (Hopewell), pa., usa Flag
Bike year & model: 1998 1100xv virago

2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:55 pm

I FINALLY figured out how to get the pic from phone to email and to here...such a minute amount of space that the mounting surface is "off" for where the "TAB hole" needs to rest on the little groove
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
User avatar
buster711
Junior Membership
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Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:46 pm
Location: Aliquippa (Hopewell), pa., usa Flag
Bike year & model: 1998 1100xv virago

2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Fri May 03, 2019 4:13 pm

That's off about 3 or 4mm. It's possible the steel balls that fit inside the case have slipped out of place when you were putting things together.
Here's what it should look like when all together.
IMG_3006 Clutch 1.JPG
IMG_3005 Clutch ll.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

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bstig60
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Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 5:06 pm

yes trying to get #12 "arm" to fit over #16 "nut" ...as you can see in pics mine is more elongated than the pic you posted...I remember that "plate" resting on the balls inside there from redoing clutch plates...Hate to have to rear this thing all back down again (even farther) to reset that thing...But alas I see no other way to get it right...
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
User avatar
buster711
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:46 pm
Location: Aliquippa (Hopewell), pa., usa Flag
Bike year & model: 1998 1100xv virago

2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 6:36 pm

yes mine is way out of wack...I was able to get arm on nut and cable connected but when doing so the clutch seemed like it was fully at the wrong end of the ride when it SHOULD be in the "resting" position (I think)...So guess I'm tearing back down and checking under that screw for the 3 balls being in place on what I seem to remember a triangle plate they rested in....Been a while since did the plates under there but seem to recall that much
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
User avatar
buster711
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:46 pm
Location: Aliquippa (Hopewell), pa., usa Flag
Bike year & model: 1998 1100xv virago

2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male

Re: Starting issue

PostAuthor: buster711 » Fri May 03, 2019 7:43 pm

Can someone help me with getting to the RETAINER, BALLS inside the clutch release assembly? Strangest thing is i have a CD of the manual but can't find anywhere on it how to get to the 3 balls on rails that could be the problem with the clutch lower lever catch being off about 1/2 an inch keeping the assembly from functioning correctly....
Last edited by buster711 on Sat May 04, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1998 xv 1100 27k
no emission crap
2001 intruder 1400
2000 Vulcan 750
1992 Vulcan (parts)
User avatar
buster711
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:46 pm
Location: Aliquippa (Hopewell), pa., usa Flag
Bike year & model: 1998 1100xv virago

2001 Intruder 1400
Sex: Male


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