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Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:51 am

XVS1100 with single and stock carbs - but their graphs contain big factual errors where either HP and/or torque listed must be wrong
http://kjsmotorcycleworks.com/images/v-star_dyno.jpg

From their page:
1A KJS had 58 ft lb of Torque @ 2,000 rpm - 58 ft lb @ 2000rpm = 22 hp
2A KJS had 24 Horsepower @ 2,000 rpm - 24 hp @ 2000 rpm = 63 ft lb
1B Stock had 54 ft lb of Torque @ 2,000 rpm - 54 ft lb @ 2000 rpm = 20.5 hp (close enough)
2B Stock Bike had 20 Horsepower @ 2,000 rpm - 20 hp @ 2000 rpm = 52.5 ft lb

So depending on what of their figures are correct, the KJS either offer less gain in hp than claimed or more torque gains.

Hellgate's graph from the XV performance shop
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/atta ... 1364524381

XVS vs XL
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/sites/ ... k=yvr-BANx

XV1100
http://www.gpperformance.co.uk/small_pa ... &img_id=97

XVS1100
http://www.gpperformance.co.uk/small_pa ... &img_id=99

Why the XV250 feels so satisfying on the road for a two-fiddy
http://www.alternativecruisers.com/imag ... _comp2.gif


Basically, what we are left with after a bit of googling is that A) an unverified comparison between single and twin carbs containing error proclaiming to give more power at lower rpm at the cost of less power on top and B) a dyno promising massive power featuring tons of tuning and two carbs. I'd love to see more - no owners having dyno tested their bikes?
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: Hollywoodmx » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:23 am

faffi wrote:XVS1100 with single and stock carbs - but their graphs contain big factual errors where either HP and/or torque listed must be wrong
http://kjsmotorcycleworks.com/images/v-star_dyno.jpg

From their page:
1A KJS had 58 ft lb of Torque @ 2,000 rpm - 58 ft lb @ 2000rpm = 22 hp
2A KJS had 24 Horsepower @ 2,000 rpm - 24 hp @ 2000 rpm = 63 ft lb
1B Stock had 54 ft lb of Torque @ 2,000 rpm - 54 ft lb @ 2000 rpm = 20.5 hp (close enough)
2B Stock Bike had 20 Horsepower @ 2,000 rpm - 20 hp @ 2000 rpm = 52.5 ft lb

So depending on what of their figures are correct, the KJS either offer less gain in hp than claimed or more torque gains.

Hellgate's graph from the XV performance shop
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/atta ... 1364524381

XVS vs XL
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/sites/ ... k=yvr-BANx

XV1100
http://www.gpperformance.co.uk/small_pa ... &img_id=97

XVS1100
http://www.gpperformance.co.uk/small_pa ... &img_id=99

Why the XV250 feels so satisfying on the road for a two-fiddy
http://www.alternativecruisers.com/imag ... _comp2.gif


Basically, what we are left with after a bit of googling is that A) an unverified comparison between single and twin carbs containing error proclaiming to give more power at lower rpm at the cost of less power on top and B) a dyno promising massive power featuring tons of tuning and two carbs. I'd love to see more - no owners having dyno tested their bikes?

That harley graph is either a modded harley or gypsy magic. Look how smooth the dyno lines are for the harley vs the xvs. Plus looking at other harley's it didn't match up. More closer to the 1200 conversions with all kinds of mods.

Pacific coast (no longer around it looks like) used to sell the dual fcr for ultimate xvs1100 performance.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: crdnick » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:05 am

https://www.facebook.com/pacificcoaststar

i think they forgot to pay the website bill.

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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Fri May 06, 2016 5:01 pm

Having ridden mine for 60 miles before parking it for the winter, and now for a 150 mile ride as the first ride of the year, I can definitely say my engine as little power and the bike is slow. Although it can be made to accelerate smoothly, but gently from as little as 1500 rpm in 5th gear, there is not enough power to stay with my son's CB400SF in top gear roll-ons. And my KZ650, carrying the same gearing as the KZ1000 and hence slightly taller than the Virago even, is noticeably quicker and stronger in top gear. There is a little urge above 5000 rpm, and it is very eager to enter the red zone, but no real power. Have some searching to do.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: nanno » Sat May 07, 2016 4:50 pm

I can tell you, that my homegrown TR1 (1.1) with XV1100 crank and pistons, raised compression 10.3:1, VM38 carbs and my Mk.6 exhaust (1,75" diameter) is pretty much on par with a well sorted Buell XB9 with a race ECU and a nice exhaust, i.e. it should be around 85horses at the crank. (Maybe even a bit more as the Buell is notably lighter)
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: Hollywoodmx » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:13 pm

nanno wrote:I can tell you, that my homegrown TR1 (1.1) with XV1100 crank and pistons, raised compression 10.3:1, VM38 carbs and my Mk.6 exhaust (1,75" diameter) is pretty much on par with a well sorted Buell XB9 with a race ECU and a nice exhaust, i.e. it should be around 85horses at the crank. (Maybe even a bit more as the Buell is notably lighter)

Good to know. My 920/1002 is just over 300lbs and I used to have an xb9r which was pretty quick off the line. I keep telling my friends with thier liter bikes I have a pretty good chance of beating them in an 1/8th mile race with my Cafe.

Then right after that they will probably blow right past me like I'm standing still.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: crdnick » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:07 pm

im kind of curious to see what my hellgate-like build is. no dynos around here for a bike though.

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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:57 am

OK, so my 750 was excused due to totally destroyed head gaskets. Tried another 750 that was stronger, but didn't want to rev past 5500. Could be the open pipes.

However, I currently have an 1100 fitted to my old 750 frame. And it is strong, stronger than typical below 4000 rpm. But also seems weaker than typical above that rpm. Acceleration slows down about 75-80 mph and is just about over when reaching 90.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: DGA » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:43 pm

My 750 will get to around 115 mph or so, so your 1100 with taller gearing should be much faster than 80. But I do have an 18" rear tyre so I think my gearing is close to the 1000/ 1100 ratio. Guessing the 1100 won't breathe as well as the 750, but still should be better than that. I often wonder if the Hitachi carbs lift their slides wide open on my bike, yet another reason I will probably get a pair of TM38 Mikunis and never look back.
'81 XV750, clip ons, 18" rear wheel, lowered 920 forks with twin discs and 1.5" spring spacers, 1100 brake master cylinder with CNC billet cap, -3 braided brake lines, lowered instruments and headlight, CNC billet mirror mounts, small billet turn signals with running lights, Koso tach/ speedo, stainless 2 into 1 stepped headers with reverse cone muffler, starter heat shield, 4 guage starter cables, rear exhaust heat shield, 4" round open air filter with billet CNC mount, TM38 flat slide Mikuni carbs, XV700 ported heads, BT-C05 cams, colder BP8ES NGK plugs, stiffened swingarm, polished engine side covers, polished rear peg mounts with carbon cover panels, single horn relocated, Sparto tail light with 3D printed lens, BSA tank kneepads, one off carbon fiber cafe seat with brown cover, fork gaiters, KDX200 rear shock, single tach/speedo with carbon fiber dash, red LED under tank and seat lights, black pearl paint with silver accents.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:55 am

It will go faster - if there isn't a headwind, 90 comes up pretty quickly and still gaining, but it doesn't feel very strong above 4000. Below, it pulls hard. When I rode the 1100 home, though, after bying it, it went like a raped ape. The exhaust was basically just the headers as the collector had rotted away almost completely. Now I have the stock 750 Gen I system on it with the end silencers removed, but I think it's still restricted. Or the intake of the Gen I is more restricted, although it doesn't look like it.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: Dave-the-rave » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:54 am

I just wrote a lengthy post with somehow disappeared but here's the gist of it...

My 94 750 goes like stink. V&H Classic II full system, stock air filter. Baffles in the pipes but no packing. I don't know what's in the carbs as I've never opened them but the pilot adjustment screws are open so the carbs have been off the bike. I'm guessing it's been up jetted.

Revs clean and makes power all the way to red line. Bottom end isn't fast but has torque at low rpm and pulls well to mid range. Mid range is great. Roll on from 50mph in top gear is good to 70 then it takes off like a rocket all the way to certain death. No idea of top speed as going over 90 on it is insanity. I've had 100 with more in tap. No need to down shift to pass a truck at 70mph. When it's fully on the main it goes like a rocket.

Plugs look good in all ranges. If I ever have to open the carbs I'll let ya all know what's in them.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:03 am

crdnick wrote:im kind of curious to see what my hellgate-like build is. no dynos around here for a bike though.

My guess is about 120 to 125 mph given gearing and a long road.

My speedo is metric and has seen 200kph, but that is with an 18" wheel so it was probably 180khm? That wasn't a top speed run, just a fast pull.

Someday I'll get it on an open road and run it out. This past year I've just not had the time to ride much; work, opening a business, kids and surgey, whew...
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:35 am

What tyre do you have on your 18in rim, Hellgate? A 110/90-18 should be similar to a 3.25-19 in circumference. However, speedos tend to read optimistic at the best of times, so using a gps seems a better option for verification. Typical verified top speed of a stock TR1 was around 180, maybe 185 kph - prone.

Dave, sounds like you have a very strong running 750. Personally, I prefer the powerband of my bike considering the speed regulations here - 95% of my riding is done on roads limited to 50 mph or less. And I can easily pass cars, even on an incline, in 5th gear from 30 mph onwards as it has good grunt.
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: nanno » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:56 pm

I've hit 160kph on a (relatively) short stretch of road and I'd hazard the guess, that with the current setup I should be able to get close to genuine 200kph. (Unless I run into the rev-limiter in 5th!)

So I guess the Hellgate-TR1 with the big heads, cams and etc. should be quite a bit faster than that.

A stock 1100 is gutless though. I suspect that a stock Gen1 750 is actually faster or not noticeably slower, yet will have a lot less torque. Sepp dyno'ed a stock 1100 with Mikunis and it came out in the low to mid 40ies, a well setup stock 750 will hit somewhere around 45 on the same dyno. (Always at the rear-wheel.)
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:45 pm

It seems like the 1100s had a bit less power in Europe than in USA - mine is a US version.

MOTORRAD got between 168 and 173 kp sitting upright from various XV1100s. The fastest bike they tested was the XV1000SE (Gen I) at 178 kph sitting up. It was also the quickest 0-100kph and 0-402m, with 4.8s and 13.3s respectively. the 1100s took between 5.2 and 5.5s and 13.8 and 14s.

The 750s tested by the same German magazine where early on restricted to 50PS (from 61) and still managed 5.6s and 14.1s and 164 kph. A later, open Gen II with 55PS claimed (power down due to noise regs) and 58 measured at the clutch took 5.9s to reach 100 kph (no 0-402m time given) but reached 173 kph upright.

Top gear acceleration is where we see the biggest differences. Again, the XV1000SE was the quickest tested from 60-140 kph, taking 11s. The 1100s took from 11.5 to 13.3s, and the 750s from 14 (the 50PS Gen I version) to 20.1 (Gen II full effect).

If we go to USA, the quickest and fastest 1100 I have seen tested did the 1/4-mi in just 12.73s @ 103.09 mph, topped out at 119 mph (191 kph) and took just 7.5s to go from 40-80 mph in top gear. The 1984 XV1000C got these numbers: 13.20s @ 98.57mph, 110mph (177kph) and 10.1s. The Gen I 750 did a 13.61 @ 95.7, 111 mph and 10.5s top gear pull.

The slowest 750 topped out at 108 mph prone, the fastest 112 mph. The most powerful was actually the XV700 with 49.79 @ 7500 rpm that did a 13.20 @ 100.62 (not top speed tested or roll-on tested). The only 1100 I have seen dyno-tested made 54.10 @ 5500.

The real difference is in torque; 54.29 @ 3000 rpm for the 1100, 38.49 @ 6000 for the 700 and 38.74 @ 6000 for a 750. I like torque :cl:
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: nanno » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:45 am

Which unit is used for torque lb/ft?

I've hit 180 - 185kph on the weekend on my TR1.1 with the small heads, but it's running lean on the top and rich on the low-end. So I'll do some fiddling with the carbs next weekend.

The new Hotrod-Supercharger setup will run somewhere between 6 to 10PSI of boost and I will DEFINITELY have to alter to final drive ratio and probably buy a maxi-pack of diapers. :o:
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: Do you own a fast Virago? (part 2)

PostAuthor: faffi » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:16 am

Yes, foot-pounds was used, and bhp for the rear wheel horsepower, PS for the power listed/taken from the clutch.
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