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Turbodog's Sidecar Project

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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: two 85 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:08 pm

Sooooo, how's about a up date? And some of the pics are not showing up :pop:
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:41 pm

:yup:
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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1981 XV920 - sidecar tug project bike - Watsonian Monaco sidecar to be fitted

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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:57 pm

Well, I tried fixing the pics, but don't know how long that will last. That's why the updates are so scarce nowadays. Tired of having the pics go missing. I need to find another (free) pic host site. Suggestions?

As for the hack, it is in final stages. custom flush lighting, fresh paint, new carpet and upholstery, brake, electrics, small car battery behind the seat.
Tug is nearly done. Need to do some wet sanding on the fairing and finish up custom LED tail light.

Had them married and have the toe-in set. Back apart now to set the rub rail where the upper and lower fiberglass meet.
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:44 am

Hi TDog,

It would be great to get some pics when you find the time, the pics at the front of this post are still not showing btw.

**Nothing to do with sidecars**

I use flickr which gives you 200 free pics if I remember it right, been a pro user for 11 years as it gives you unlimited storage (I'm currently at 30GB) but I also upload small/medium versions of my pics direct to this site so that they (hopefully) won't go missing. I use flickr as my picture cloud storage as it provides me with download links to different sizes as well as embed and sharing links..

Anyways, good to hear from you, I got me a TR1 finally (well engine, frame and wheels really) and it was completely in pieces so I have been rebuilding that.. it came with 2-2 straight through pipes, twin Weber carb with bellmouths and GSXR 17" wheels and was drag raced apparently.. I will be turning it into a sort of copy of Hageman's paired down Vincent black shadow like bike, complete with frame chop and 1.1 upgrade..

**back to turbodog's sidecar talk**

Cheers,

Rant.
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:05 pm

I wheeled it out into the sunshine (but didn't bother to dust it off)...

Image

Image

Image
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:15 am

Wow, that looks great!! Is that a strip of LED down the side of the chair?I like how close the chair sits to the tug! Also the twin rear brakes are cool, would love to see pics of how you set that up as well as the setup for the axle etc.. :GJ: :coolpic:
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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1981 XV920 - sidecar tug project bike - Watsonian Monaco sidecar to be fitted

1981 TR1 - Basket case project - bought completely dismantled and teaching me mechanics 101
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:14 am

I think you are referring to the rivet heads where the hinge attaches to the 'door'. The left brake pedal controls the bike rear brake, and the right pedal controls the sidecar brake. It uses a CBR600 master cylinder and reservoir (just visible between the upper mount and the master electrical cutoff in the last photo). I'll get a better photo.

Lots of stuff done, probably more than I can remember, but here's a list off the top of my head:
Tug:
chair subframe
adapted 920R bodywork (including Europe-only TR1 seat and tail) and footpeg brackets, Kaw ZG1000 rear fender
front header relocated to left side
left-only muffler to keep sound away from monkey ears
Kaw ZG1000 oil cooler with thermostat
Sea-doo fuel cutoff/selector, using one side of tank as reserve
6 degree raked triple trees, re-machining lower yoke and scratch-built upper yoke
920R forks and brakes
steering damper
LED conversion on everything except headlight
Relocated coils and regulator under right sidecover (Battery in sidecar)

Chair:
Re-wired, with custom relay circuit controlling all light functions from low-current signals from tug (hi beam, brake, right turn, etc)
Interior and storage compartment lighting. USB outlets, Aux 12V with small fan.
Small car battery,master cutoff, and plug-and-go float charger connection setup
Custom fiberglass work for flush mount LED DRL/Hi-beam, right marker/indicator, rear turn, tail lights
"Habenero" metalflake paint/clearcoat
fresh marine carpet and neoprene upholstery
Custom wheel hub with 2" bearings and lug pattern to match Virago brake disc mount pattern
Virago wheel machined to mount on wheel hub
Virago brake disk and caliper setup mounted to original leading-arm suspension
Custom brake master cylinder setup

That's all I can think of.
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:06 pm

Wowee, someone's been busy!! Sounds like great work although you know..: :worthless:

So I would love to see more pics of the work described.. My chair looks a bit more classical but will if anything need even more work as I started stripping it down toay and noticed the firbeglass joint between the lower half and upper half is showing it's 50 years.. i.e. there's some cracks so I'll have to do some fibreglassing.. also considering replacing some of the wooden reinforcements with aluminium as I have just picked up ally welding as a new skill.

Custom T's sound awesome and reminded me that you have considerable engineering skill.. did you run it at all before the T's were fitted out of curiosity? Just wondering if I am kidding myself about it being ok without steering mods? Are you running 18" all round? How are the rear tyres holding up?

I have plenty more questions but for now,

cheers,

Rant.
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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1981 TR1 - Basket case project - bought completely dismantled and teaching me mechanics 101
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:40 pm

Took the rig for a shakedown around the neighborhood today. Nothing fell off (including me), so I'll call t a success. There is something wonky with the front brakes, which is weird since they are all XV920R standard. They seem to drag a lot, but the real problem is a nasty grinding sound when turning left. Of course not reproducible with the rig stationary. Tomorrow I'll pull off one caliper at a time (wire it up out of the way) and see which one is the culprit. I have a spare front end, including brakes, so am pretty sure I have the parts to sort it out.

Otherwise, it tracked straight up to 35 MPH, no steering wobbles. Steering is really light... maybe too light, but can;t tell until I get it on a freeway. The chair brake is plenty strong. Hit it too hard and the rig veers sharply to the right. I had the chair spring preload at it's lowest setting, which is too low. The engine ran well. With the relatively quiet exhaust, the top end noise from the engine is very pronounced, so I guess I'll re-install the little rubber dampers.
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:37 am

Sounds like you might have a worn wheel bearing causing a bit to much play in the wheel with the heavy load of the chair.. or you might need a fork brace.. did you weigh down the chair for the test? On left turn the chair wheel will experience a bit of dragging which with no weight in the chair might sound quite loud..
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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1981 XV920 - sidecar tug project bike - Watsonian Monaco sidecar to be fitted

1981 TR1 - Basket case project - bought completely dismantled and teaching me mechanics 101
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:11 am

I found the grinding noise was a caliper (the fixed,non-floating part that mounts to the fork) grinding against the outer edge of the brake rotor. Indicated fork or wheel bearing deflection. Not good. I pulled the wheel and the bearings seem fine. So I disassembled and reassembled the front end using stock triple trees. I measured front wheel axle location before and after, and found my raked trees were moving the axle forward 2.5 inches.... right in the ballpark I wanted. Took a test ride. The rig seems a little more stable, but steering effort is much, much higher... too much for my wife to be able to drive it. And, it still had a faint grinding noise in a hard left turn, but much less than before. So, still some fork or bearing deflection. I bit the bullet and bought a fork brace. In the meantime, I am starting to plan an alternative means to move the wheel forward:
Image

[EDIT] On second thought, I think I'll just make a Leading Leg adapter:
Image


I will also convert to the larger '83 rotor diameter and some 4-pot calipers... the brakes are weak (except the one on the chair!)
Also, forgot to answer: running 19" front, 16" rear wheels. Gearing seems good for the extra weight of the car.
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:42 pm

OK, my update:
Image

Axle moved forward 2 inches (and up a hair... oops...)
12 inch rotors replacing 10.5
4 pot calipers (so far no issues with non-floating disc...I have a secret recipe...
Fork brace
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: two 85 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:00 pm

I would like to see how you made the "leading legs". Might want some on my 84 rig
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:28 pm

Well, first off, I started with forks set up for dual discs (81 VX920R in my case). Don't think it is possible otherwise.
The adapters main connections are the original axle holes in the fork legs (different diameters left and right) and the caliper mounting bosses.
Image

The steel plate is flush to the outside of the fork leg at the flat surrounding the axle holes. The new axle hole is forward of the original on mine by 2 inches (don't forget to account for the rake angle as I did). Then spacers are needed to center the wheel. These should exactly match the section thickness of the fork leg where the original axle passed thru. Note left and right on my forks were not identical thickness. I found some steel spacers on ebay already drilled and tapped for 10mm bolts.
Link to Spacers
These are cut to the exact length needed to fill the gap between the steel plate and the caliper bosses. Again, left and right were not identical. Not visible: I added a ~ 1 inch wide strip of 1/4" steel under the bottom of the fork leg, extending to the new axle spacer. It is welded to the side plates and the axle spacer, and I had it clamped tight to the bottom of the fork leg when tack welding. This does 2 things: it helps transmit bump shocks to the fork body, instead of the caliper bosses. It also adds stiffness left and right. It has an "L" shape, drilled to match the pinch bolt hole, and an 8mm bolt and nut
Image

Caliper mounting depends on what brake you use. The original calipers are a problem because the new mounting location puts the mounts right in the fork leg. The GSXR 4-pot calipers and 12 inch (1983 Virago) discs (the right side slots slant the wrong way) worked out well.

Lastly, I repositioned the fender forward. I used the rear fender hole in the front fork leg mount, and fabbed little brackets to go from the rear fork leg mounts to newly-drilled holes in the fender 'strut' area. I used the front fender hole, now out in front of the forks, to mount sawed-off brake line brackets.

Whew. It took a week of nights in my shop, plus a 3-day weekend to fab and assemble. I have a harbor freight benchtop table saw with a 10-inch cutoff wheel. Cutting the 1/4 steel made such an intense stream of grinder flash, it melted a hole in the plastic saw housing, and started it on fire (mere inches from my crotch!). Measure carefully, because it's something you only want to do once.
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:00 pm

Well, the big day has arrived. I loaded up my wife and dog, and took them on the inaugural ride... to the dog park, of course!
Image

Image

Both wife and dog settled in and enjoyed the ride. Oh, my God... did I actually finish a project?
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: two 85 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:29 pm

Thanks for the update.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:20 pm

Update on the rig: After about 50 miles of local driving, it is clear that the forks are too limp for sidecar duty. I tried increasing air pressure, but the forks still bottom out and the air pressure is gone in a matter of a few miles. No oil leaks from the (brand new) fork seals. Maybe I just need new o-rings in the fork caps. However, I have decided to go with higher rate springs. So I got my big scale out.
The front tire is carrying 300 lbs with no one on board, and 375 with me standing on the driver footpegs (no monkey).
The stock fork seems to be right around 30 lbs/in spring. I see Progressives are rated at 30/40 lbs/in. I think I need more than that. I saw a website where a KLR based sidecar rig ended up at 60 lbs/in.
I found these springs at Amazon, of all places: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085YQVFQ.
Progressives are 1.08” dia and 27” long… IIRC about 3 inches stick up before you put the fork cap on.
Three of these would be about the right length. Of course they come in a pack of 5, one short of doing both forks.

So, just to be absolutely sure the forks won’t be bottoming out, I also ordered these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085YR4BG
So I will use 2 of each in each fork leg, with 1” fender washers between each spring. This should give about 4 inches of travel at 45 lb/in, then up to 150 lbs/in for the last 1.5 inches of travel. We’ll see how that goes.

One side effect of the limp front end is my relocated front header hits speed bumps. So, I am finishing up sidecar subframe Mk II:
Image
Image

In this version, the front header pipe is located back on the right, and runs in a thin-wall tube through the center of the DOM structural pipe, then into the collector box.

Ready for paint (high temp!)
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:59 pm

Interesting concept of running the exhaust trough the subframe!

I'll be following the front suspension changes with interest!

Cheers,

Rant.
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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1981 XV920 - sidecar tug project bike - Watsonian Monaco sidecar to be fitted

1981 TR1 - Basket case project - bought completely dismantled and teaching me mechanics 101
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: turbodog » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:14 pm

A few pics from Ryder's first solo in the sidecar. Based on the big yawn, I'd say he is pretty relaxed about the whole thing.
Image

Image

As for the rig, I really like how the Mk II subframe turned out.

I did change up the spring combo a little. Im running one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085 ... UTF8&psc=1

and 2 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085 ... UTF8&psc=1

in each fork. The resulting spring rate is 1/(1/R1 +1/R2+1/R3)= 1/(1/128+1/157+1/157) = 49 lbs/inch. It's as close to perfect as I could ask. There is about 1 inch of sag with rider on board, but sidecar empty. BTW I am running a 700 lb/in spring in the back.
[EDIT: Actually 800lb/in: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003P ... UTF8&psc=1]

I did have to add a better steering damper. Air cooled VW bug steering dampers are the sidecar standard, and it worked great for me. All tendency to headshake is gone, and steering effort is really no worse.
'83 XV920 Virago "Spare Parts Bike" Now sidecar tug with Vetter Terraplane hack
'81 XV920R, Resto-mod, back on the operating table.
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Re: Turbodog's Sidecar Project

PostAuthor: rantingsmith » Mon May 01, 2017 2:09 am

Very cool! I'll have to look into those springs for my rig!

How did you work out the basic required spring rate?

You should so post this on the Adventure Rider Forum, it's where I went to get a lot of info on the how to with a sidecar. I am sure the exhaust through frame would get a few comments and using the spring combos would help a lot of people out.

As for Ryder, they love dogs in sidecars, they even have their own picture thread..:)

Cheers,

Rant.
The Flying Anvil XV750SE '82 - Custom rear subframe, Bar end mirrors, New indicators, New tail light, 18" rear wheel conversion, KOSO speedo, lithium battery, custom wiring harness, clipons, modified SR500 rearsets, Lucas replica switchgear, K&N air filter, many parts powdercoated
XV920 '81- Watsonian Monaco sidecar tug project-work in progress - top end rebuild time
TR1.1 '81 Basket case project - Work in progress - Sepp Koch style frame chop plus refinement, XVS1100 jugs piston crankshaft conversion, nanno's 9 plate clutch conversion, BMW r850r rear shock, spoke wheels XS650 front & rear, twin 320mm discs with Yamaha Blue spot calipers, XT500 tank, twin Webber carbs, home built exhaust (hopefully) seat and subframe, footrest hangers...
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1981 XV920 - sidecar tug project bike - Watsonian Monaco sidecar to be fitted

1981 TR1 - Basket case project - bought completely dismantled and teaching me mechanics 101
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