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Bike dies during every signal flash

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Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: RMiddy » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:04 am

I'm exhausted from typing this out over and over and troubleshooting, but here are the most important points:

-Bike dies momentarily when turn signal is engaged, during each "on" flash of the signal

-I mean entire bike shuts off, as if the engine cutoff switch has been flipped, but because it is only off for part of a second, the bike does not completely die, it just lurches during each flash, like I am switching it back on. Speedo/Tach needles peg to 0, lights turn off, and bike begins backfiring because it is basically being nearly shut off during each flash but resurrected with that uncombusted fuel in the pipe.

-Same result if the HI-beam switch is engaged, although this is virtually identical to the engine cutoff switch in functionality right now

THIS IS NOT HAPPENING DURING EVERY RIDE, AND HAS BEEN REPLICATED BY MOTORBIKE SHOP STAFF, BUT NOT RELIABLY.

I am losing sleep over this; I have already paid the shop $400 and change to have it "fixed" when they said it was a faulty diode block. The very day I picked up the bike, it was still doing this, but so unreliably and so seldom that I said I'd bring it home, with instructions to come back if it re-occurs. Well, it's reocurring. Frequently, during every ride.

I have no problems starting. I am not using any aftermarket lights/battery accessories. My reg/rec are operating normally according to voltimeter. If I clutch-in, the bike operates normally, and the signal continues its benign flashes.

I am hoping that SOMEBODY has experienced something similar so that when I return to the bike shop, I can tell them what to focus on. Right now, I am working on choosing my words diplomatically so that when payment is discussed, I can tell them that I do not expect them to work for free, but that I have paid four hundred bucks to pick up a bike that is in the exact same state it was when I dropped it off, with the replacement of a $70 part that took ten days to order in and did not fix the problem.[album][/album]

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:21 pm

Howdy. Welcome to VTF.

hopefully TRV will see this, he's the wiring guru and may have an answer.

in the mean time, check that all your grounds are clean/shiny and tight.
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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:15 am

:VTF:
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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: RMiddy » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:38 am

Thanks for the welcome guys. Fingers crossed somebody has heard of this problem or can diagnose it so that I can tell the shop what to fix.

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:44 am

That sounds like something is opening the power to the main fuse when the signal light flashes, Did you try changing the signal light flasher relay? Also, check the connections on the battery. It could be the extra amperage of the signal light is causing an open in either battery or ground due to a loose connection. If memory serves, under the tank on the left side that is a group of ground wires connected to the frame. This is where the headlight bucket gets all its ground connections. In addition, I would check to make sure all your ground and battery connections are clean and tight, both on the battery and the frame ground.
Let us know what you find.
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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: Jake » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:49 am

I don't like telling you this, I don’t ever recall, nor can i find anything remotely like your problem on the forum.

Im afraid its going to be expensive to have a shop fix it, and the only solution I can suggest is going through the wiring harness wire by wire if necessary. You probably have two wires somewhere that rubbed together, exposed the wire under the insulation causing a short or cross feed between them.
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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: Jake » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:41 am

Looking back at your 1st post, you said the replaced the diode ($70 is too much even in Canadian ). I don’t believe that would cause your problem. I mistakenly thought you meant relay, then bstsig60 mentioned relay.

Did they look at the relay as bstig60 mentioned ? Signals and stop switch are just two of the wires that the relay service.

If the relay is found to be good, I would start by looking at the wiring bundle going into the relay.

Beginning with the R/W wire to the stop switch to see if any insulation has been worn through. Any bare wire from the signals making contact with bare wire from the stop switch would probably have that effect.

Relay is the primary culprit though !
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There is an old Chinese proverb - "Man with one watch knows the time. Man with two, not sure."
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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: RMiddy » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:39 am

A small detail that may be worth mentioning, or inconsequential:

I brought the bike to the shop originally to get new tires, and added two items to be done while it was in there. The first was to have my turn signal/horn housing opened and cleaned a little because it was sticking. Knowing how easy this is to do now, since I've now taken it apart two or three times trying to figure out this problem, I'll just do this on my own from now on. The SECOND item on the list was that my turn signals were working properly, but one of my front RUNNING LIGHTS was not operational, and I just wanted the bulb changed.

The problem with the turn signal/hi beam stalling never happened once before I brought the bike home from that completed work order. Could there be something "off" from the running light install?

When I mentioned the suspect timing of this issue the first time I brought the bike in, both the service employee and the bike tech were quick to say the systems had nothing to do with one another. I disagree, clearly my electrical system provides electricity to the turn signals, and so I want to rule out whether the shop caused this problem.

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: Jake » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:10 pm

I don’t know how they could have screwed up a simple bulb change. The signals on the front are dual filament so they can function as running lights too.

All one has to do is remove the lens and replace the bulb. It may be worthwhile to check the bulb they put in, it should be an 1157 dual filament as seen below.

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: RMiddy » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:48 pm

Just bumping to let you guys know its been in the shop for ~4 days and I haven't had any calls about it yet. I think they want to avoid sending it back to me with another misdiagnosis.

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: Arjay » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:21 pm

Intermittent electrical shorts can be the pits. A micro crack in insulation and/or an oxidated short can sometimes short and other times lay dormant. Usually takes some physical event to induce the re-occurrences.

I tell you the following for the purpose of example.Its not a recommendation. Just to show an extreme measure.

As an electrician I was dealing with an intermittent short at ladys house and kept having to go back. A circuit in her house kept tripping the breaker.

Used all standard methods to trace the short but failed.

Finally I had enough, unplugged all appliances and wired to larger amp breaker, sat and waited. Suddenly see smoke coming from wall. Ran and shut breaker off.

What had happened was she had hung some decorations on outside of her trailer against metal wall. She used metal drywall screws. Just the very tip of that drywall screw bit the hot wire. Just enough so that the circuit would only occasionally trip.

Though I had to take her wall apart and replace the wire it was worth taking the risk of temporarily employing extra amperage to produce enough damage/smoke,to detect it. Else I would of had to redo the whole circuit. The excess heat from over amperage damage was limitted to the location of the screw.

I dont know if this could apply but I would unplug as much as I could prior to testing as damage could be severe.

When doing street lighting we used high voltage generators which could detect shorts as higher voltages (notamps) are used to detect leaks in insulation.

Again, this is not a recommendation, conservative measures would be best.

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: RMiddy » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:00 am

UPDATE:

The shop did not find anything conclusive, and seemed reluctant to admit that they had not fixed the problem by replacing the diode block. One of the technicians did continue to test ride the bike when he had spare time for a week or so, putting nearly 100km on and replicating the problem a few times, but not reliably enough to diagnose anything.

On my own, however, I was lucky enough to make some progress. After returning to my garage after sunset, I noticed that when I dismounted, my headlight brightened noticeably against the wall. Looking like am absolute madman, probably, I went through the exact motions of mounting and dismounting forward and backward a few times and was able to get the light to brighten whenever my glove brushed the cable cluster on the left handlebar.

Further jiggling narrowed it down to my CLUTCH cable. I was able to deduce that there is electricity arcing to my CLUTCH cable at some location, despite the fact that it is not meant to carry current.

As a temporary workaround, I have found that by loosening the round, threaded adjuster ring (the one beneath the rubber sheath just proximal to the clutch lever), I can eliminate the unwanted ground. I have enjoyed several lengthy rides without the problem reoccurring, just by loosening that adjuster by a quarter inch, which appears to be far enough to break whatever unwanted circuit was going on.

I say temporary workaround because there is still current wanting to jump out of its intended path, and I hoped this new information might help me gather some advice on where to start looking.

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Re: Bike dies during every signal flash

PostAuthor: GeraMtzM » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:53 pm

I had similar issues last weekend, exactly with turn signals and this morning with front light hi/lo switch, as bstig60 mention, I am looking for ground and battery connections are clean and tight, I'll keep you posted.

By the way, I recently change all turn signals, same model same specs, just new ones.

Regards.
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