Forum Donations
Search
VTF Google Search
 Click Here

3rd R/R blown...

  • Advertisement

Post a reply

3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: BenAnna » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:04 pm

Hello everyone, thank you for reading. The Clymer is no longer any help and I am at my wits end.

My girlfriend received a hand me down 87 virago 535, her first bike. When we first got it there were electrical issues starting with the main fuse blowing periodically. On the 2nd fuse the plugs between the R/R and Stator started to smoke. I pulled them apart and the plug on 1 terminal(3prong plug between stator/RR) got so hot it melted the plastic. I went through and tested the charging system per the manual and discovered that the R/R was toast. Found a deal on a R/R stator package so I replaced both. The original stator tested out fine, as did the new one, replaced stator anyway. The next one(R/R) blew almost immediately upon starting the bike back up. I ASSumed that the ground may have been the issue(it was dirty and slightly rusty, I neglected to clean it) so I cleaned all of the grounds, replaced the R/R again, Tested the stator(tested fine). I also added an extra ground per recommendations I read on various forums. I then ran into carb issues (one float developed a crack) so there was a long gap between being able to properly test the electrics again.

However upon the next opportunity I tested the system again per the manual. The charging system never got above the manuals specs at the battery. However since the bike was running and holding enough of a charge(>12.6 but never above 13 regardless of rpm) we decided to go for a test ride. All the individual charging components tested out properly prior to the ride other than the actual charge at the battery(which was new as of 5 days ago). This morning she started the bike to take it to work, let it warm up, stalled it taking off, went to start it again and nothing. I just got home from work, the battery has a charge of 10.9v with the bike off, I jumped it with my bike, while running the voltage at the battery gradually drops bellow 8.0, the plug between the RR and stator is showing signs of overheating again, the stator now tests at 0.5 ohms (above the .3-.4 in the manual), the RR is blown again (for reference it is the type that sits right above the exhaust mid bike under the motor). The battery with the bike off is still 10.9. I do have a charger I can put it on however note that prior to a single ride the battery was new, filled and charged by the shop I bought it from.

Back story on the electrical system in general. Last winter we put the bike in the living room while I was looking for a new carb float, my GF went through all of the connections with a wiring diagram/multimeter and tested everything for shorts and poor connections. No shorts where found and every connection got cleaned and put back together with a little dielectric grease. All of the grounds were thoroughly cleaned and put back together again with dielectric grease. I found a suspect wire in the on/off switch that was crimped but showed no signs of shorting, it was wrapped and appears to be fine. We originally suspected the positive wire which we tested thoroughly off and on the bike for any issues and it appeared to be fine. Coils, plugs, wires where tested per the manual, the caps failed the test and were replaced prior to the test ride mentioned above, plugs were also replaced, wires were cut per the manual instructions and everything was reinstalled. Coils were tested per instructions, warm, and they tested out within spec. When I replaced the stator I did not notice anything obvious, although other than burrs, nicks or a lack of freely moving parts I wouldn't know what else to look for, there was an area that looked scuffed on the "rotor" however it did not impede any movement between it and the stator. The original battery had a dead cell, replaced it, that battery prior to the test run wouldn't hold a charge after the 2nd RR blew, replaced it. The battery for the test ride was new as of 5 days ago, it may or may not have a dead cell now I haven't gotten far enough to know yet. If it does it will be the 3rd battery that has a dead cell because of the bike.

Its pretty obvious that the original electrical problem was not fixed. However I tested everything per the manual, all the individual (new) parts tested out fine. Wires, even within the harness tested out fine. The only original part that did not pass the tests was the RR. However it was replaced twice... The stator was new as well and 2 RR have blown with it on. It now also appears to be toast, although I have not removed it yet to physically look at it and test it. I still have the original stator. I'd like to think I am mechanically inclined, I work on all of my vehicles, I've rebuild alternators etc. replaced a motor and brought a car back from a run in with a deer. I know how to follow directions, I couldn't do my job otherwise. If I am missing something obvious I'll give this another go, however I am almost at the point of telling her to sell it and get something else... Which I'd hate to do because she discovered she loves riding and we don't really have the money for a newer bike. The other option is sending it to a shop, however again money isn't flowing out of any orifices and unless I get a guaranteed fix that seems like a money out the window option as well, please correct me if I am wrong. I'll take any advice or suggestions.

I do work and am currently in clinical rotations so bear with me if my answers to questions aren't prompt. Thank you again for reading, and thank you for any advice or suggestions.

BenAnna
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 87 virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:07 am

Have you tested the output of the stator with the r/r disconnected and the engine running? It should put out AC volts from about 20 or so at idle to upwards of 50 VAC at 3000 or so. Check between each of the 3 wires, then check to ground for a short. To check the R/r, at the battery with the engine running you should see 14-15 VDC at 5000 Rpm.
The R/R has to be mounted where it gets a good flow of fresh air, it is designed to get hot doing its job but needs cool air flow or it will fry. It was mounted under the frame on the earlier models, from 89 on it was finned and mounted just to the rear of the left passenger foot peg where it would get better cooling.
My first thought is a bad battery, it wouldn't be the first time a new one was bad. Take it off and take it to an auto supply shop and they will load test it for you.. This is the only way to know for sure.
The next step would be starting to unplug things to see if you can find what it putting an extra load on the charging system. Let us know what you find.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13294
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: BenAnna » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:05 pm

Thanks bstig60, It will take some time but I will test this. I don't think its the battery, 3 bad ones in a row seems like extraordinary bad luck. I never tested the stator running, but I know that currently the RR is at 8v no matter the rpm. I'm going to stick the battery on a charger tonight and check it in the morning, if its bad I'll have to swap it out before I can do the other tests. As soon as I've done them I'll post the results. How difficult would it be to move the RR to a different location? is there a mount for the newer models I can try to find and will it work with the older set up?

BenAnna
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 87 virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:31 pm

There is no way to know if a battery is good or bad without load testing it. It could hold a charge for a while and still have a bad cell.
If memory serves, the 89 and later models mounted the r/r to the passenger peg bolts. The later r/r's had a ground wire that ran directly to the battery. Some also added a ground wire from the mounting point to a good ground on the frame.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13294
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: BenAnna » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:10 pm

The RR is definately cooked. I'll have to order a new one. Battery is on a charger for now. Had 11.33v. I'm going to remount the RR on the toot peg, i have access to a shop so that shouldn't be terribly difficult. I will also have a direct ground plus one to a second location. I tested the stator, all leads are at 0.4 ohm, no short to ground. As soon as i have everything back together I'll post my results, it may take a couple of weeks. Thank you.

BenAnna
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 87 virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: mark75 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:00 pm

also the battery cable connection [from battery at frame/engine] cleaned and shiny, too.
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe


Time flies >>> whether you're having fun __ :bike: or not :fan: ---

Any day above ground is a good day.
so Laissez les bon temps roulez ... just roll safely
Semper Vigilans...always watchful

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." ... Confucius*

If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members, so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
mark75
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 15660
Images: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:57 am
Location: Republic of Texas Flag
Bike year & model: 1982 - XV750
2013 - FXDC Super Glide Custom
*
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: BenAnna » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:32 pm

mark75 wrote:also the battery cable connection [from battery at frame/engine] cleaned and shiny, too.

All of the grounds and cables were removed and cleaned with very fine grit sand paper on the chance there was a bad connection. Everything was put back with dielectric grease to prevent corrosion. When i remove the exhaust ill double check everything one more time. Thank you.

BenAnna
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 87 virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: Arjay » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:23 pm

exhaust leak blowing on r/r? the cat tank might have a pinhole, right there next to it on stock exhaust.

or

forgot to use insulated, nut/washer/fiber thingy on your stator installs.
same mistake killed them twice. The original r/r had a right to die cause it was old.
so that makes 3.

both are just guessing, havent had to change stator wiring yet, had an r/r go out, replaced with no issues.

curious what your ac outputs will be.
Rj

Arjay
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:18 pm
Location: Summerfield Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Virago 1100
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: Jake » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:43 pm

It may be helpful if you tell us what brand of R/R you bought. All R/Rs are not created equal, some have a short life span.
_______________________________________________________________________
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you in trouble.
It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

~Mark Twain


There is an old Chinese proverb - "Man with one watch knows the time. Man with two, not sure."
User avatar
Jake
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 12376
Images: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:18 pm
Location: Penn's Forestland otherwise known as Pennsylvania Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 XV750
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: mark75 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:28 pm

BTW:
Bonne Chance on the clinicals.

I remember ours being very challenging, particularly Family, and Public health.
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe


Time flies >>> whether you're having fun __ :bike: or not :fan: ---

Any day above ground is a good day.
so Laissez les bon temps roulez ... just roll safely
Semper Vigilans...always watchful

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." ... Confucius*

If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members, so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
mark75
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 15660
Images: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:57 am
Location: Republic of Texas Flag
Bike year & model: 1982 - XV750
2013 - FXDC Super Glide Custom
*
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: BenAnna » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:58 pm

Arjay wrote:exhaust leak blowing on r/r? the cat tank might have a pinhole, right there next to it on stock exhaust.

or

forgot to use insulated, nut/washer/fiber thingy on your stator installs.
same mistake killed them twice. The original r/r had a right to die cause it was old.
so that makes 3.

both are just guessing, havent had to change stator wiring yet, had an r/r go out, replaced with no issues.

curious what your ac outputs will be.
Rj



I'm not sure of any pinhole leak on the exhaust but it wouldn't surprise me.
I'm not certain what your talking about with the insulated, nut/washer/fiber thingy. I put the new one in exactly how the old one came out. The stator also isn't showing any short to ground. I assume if I forgot said insulator there would be a short to ground.
As far as RR name, I do not know, the first came as part of a kit with the stator. The second was off amazon, it was "cheap" so I wouldn't rule out the "you get what you pay for" but for it to only last 1 ride... I should have the next one in this week and I am hoping to have it installed by next weekend, relocated and with extra grounds.

BenAnna
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 87 virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: BenAnna » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:32 pm

I may have finally found the culprit.
Today the new RR arrived. I attached it to its new mounting point with 1 ground coming from each screw that mounts it. Before putting the battery back in place i decided to do a "dry" run of the diagnostic procedure i downloaded for the charging system. Ill come back to link this after i have a computer conection. I got to the part testing the ignition switch. Brown line to positive battery cable (no battery installed yet) with the ignition switch(key) in the off position. Testing in ohms i got nothing, turned the switch and got 46.8ohms. Off and back on again now its
.2 ohms. Jiggled the key and the resistance started bouncing all over. Disconected the ignition switch from the bike and tested it stand alone and got the same results. Tested it on the bike side wiring and everything came back showing no abnormalities. Im going to say the ignition switch is worn and needs to be replaced.

Ive done a preliminary search and came up empty handed. None of the switches on ebay nor amazon have the correct electrical plug yet claim they fit. I will be calling our local Yamaha dealer tomorrow to see what they can do for me.

BenAnna
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 87 virago 535
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: Jake » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:06 pm

All of these models use the same switch:

This Yamaha 3JC-82510-00-00 MAIN SWITCH ASSEMBLY fits the following models and components:

Yamaha Motorcycle 2000 VIRAGO 535 - XV535MC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1987 VIRAGO 535 - XV535TC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1988 VIRAGO 535 - XV535U

Yamaha Motorcycle 1987 VIRAGO 535 - XV535T

Yamaha Motorcycle 1997 VIRAGO 535 - XV535J

Yamaha Motorcycle 1997 VIRAGO 535 - XV535JC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1997 VIRAGO 535 - XV535SJ

Yamaha Motorcycle 1997 VIRAGO 535 - XV535SJC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1995 VIRAGO 535 - XV535SG

Yamaha Motorcycle 1996 VIRAGO 535 - XV535HC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1990 VIRAGO 535 - XV535AC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1990 VIRAGO 535 - XV535A

Yamaha Motorcycle 1993 VIRAGO 535 - XV535E

Yamaha Motorcycle 1993 VIRAGO 535 - XV535EC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1999 VIRAGO 535 - XV535LC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1999 VIRAGO 535 - XV535L

Yamaha Motorcycle 1995 VIRAGO 535 - XV535GC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1996 VIRAGO 535 - XV535SHC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1998 VIRAGO 535 - XV535KC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1998 VIRAGO 535 - XV535K

Yamaha Motorcycle 1996 VIRAGO 535 - XV535SH

Yamaha Motorcycle 1995 VIRAGO 535 - XV535G

Yamaha Motorcycle 1995 VIRAGO 535 - XV535SGC

Yamaha Motorcycle 1996 VIRAGO 535 - XV535H

Yamaha Motorcycle 2000 VIRAGO 535 - XV535M
_______________________________________________________________________
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you in trouble.
It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

~Mark Twain


There is an old Chinese proverb - "Man with one watch knows the time. Man with two, not sure."
User avatar
Jake
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 12376
Images: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:18 pm
Location: Penn's Forestland otherwise known as Pennsylvania Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 XV750
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: mark75 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:58 pm

"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe


Time flies >>> whether you're having fun __ :bike: or not :fan: ---

Any day above ground is a good day.
so Laissez les bon temps roulez ... just roll safely
Semper Vigilans...always watchful

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." ... Confucius*

If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members, so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
mark75
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 15660
Images: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:57 am
Location: Republic of Texas Flag
Bike year & model: 1982 - XV750
2013 - FXDC Super Glide Custom
*
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: Arjay » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:25 pm

I would take a stab at taking it apart and shine up copper contact plates.

Arjay
Junior Membership
Junior Membership
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:18 pm
Location: Summerfield Flag
Bike year & model: 1996 Virago 1100
Sex: Male

Re: 3rd R/R blown...

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:18 am

Replace it with a good used one.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 13294
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male



Post a reply


  • Advertisement

Return to Virago Help - Electronics

Who is online

Registered users: bstig60