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Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: SalSageV » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:40 pm

Recently got my 93 750 up and running with a single carb manifold. Everything was running well for some time, no problems I could identify. One day while riding home (luckily right outside of my home) my main fuse blows and a new problem started. Now the main fuse was quite old and after replacing it I have a problem that I have not the slightest clue on how to approach. My battery will hold a charge while sitting for a few weeks before needing a charge. However, after about a 30 minute ride the battery is basically entirely empty. The bike wont even attempt to turn over. Regulator is aftermarket and fairly new. Wiring harness and connections look good. Haven't had any other fuses blow. Have The one sketch wire I had is soldered and connected well. Regulator is getting power. To the betterment of my knowledge there are no shorts but I really don't know what I'm looking for or where to look for a problem like this. Thanks in advance if you have any advice! Hopefully I can get this fixed fairly easily and get back on the road!

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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:57 pm

Rectifier doesn't directly keep you battery charged. It rectifies AC to DC for you bikes systems. Soo..I'd say something is wrong with the alternator. And when you're ride, your bike is using up all the battery's juice to run the lights, signals, coils, spark plugs etc etc etc...and "nothing" is going back in. Wires shorted, connector melted or the rotor and/or stator is damaged. Usually it just the stator. You'll have to get down there and start checking the resistance of the alternates' three wires. Compare them with the numbers in the manual. Checking the regulator would be a good idea too.
There's tons of "how-tos" out there. Can even do a search on VTF will show up quite afew.

http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-check-mo ... ng-system/
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: SalSageV » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Ok so I gotta crack her open and take a peek inside. Time to order the gaskets. Hopefully I can find a day soon to open her up and more likely than not replace the stator it appears. Thanks man!

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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:09 pm

I'd check the wire's resistance first. You don't have to open it up to do that. But it does seem something's wrong, but only you can test and find out.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Jake » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:55 am

Flyingdog wrote:I'd check the wire's resistance first. You don't have to open it up to do that. But it does seem something's wrong, but only you can test and find out.


:yup:

More often than not, it's the R/R that is the problem. After market R/Rs ( cheap ones ) seem to fail quickly, and contrary to what flyingdog said
Flyingdog wrote:Rectifier doesn't directly keep you battery charged. It rectifies AC to DC for you bikes systems. Soo..I'd say something is wrong with the alternator.
it is does directly keep your battery charged as much as the stator, both function together. One cannot charge the battery without the other.

True, it changes AC to DC. The R/R determines when the battery is charged and then dumps any excess voltage that is not required to power the bike, as heat. Excess heat is the R/Rs biggest enemy. It's important that the R/R is mounted and grounded properly.

Another thing is any other mods you made besides the single carb. Did you modify the wiring, such as add LEDs or mount the R/R in a new location ? Many think they are reducing the load on the stator by reducing the current draw, but they are not, they are increasing the demand on the R/R.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:35 am

More than likely its the R/R as Jake said.. Troubleshoot the most likely things first. Take your DVM and put it on 20vdc and put the leads across the positive and negative terminals of the battery at idle. you should see about 13V, with the meter leads still connected to the battery terminals raise the rpm up to 3000, you should see about 14.4 vdc. Post what you find...
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:28 am

Jake wrote:
Flyingdog wrote:Rectifier doesn't directly keep you battery charged. It rectifies AC to DC for you bikes systems. Soo..I'd say something is wrong with the alternator.

it is does directly keep your battery charged as much as the stator, both function together. One cannot charge the battery without the other..


Yep..I worded that one badly. Guess I was looking at it just little differently, with the same result in "my" mind. As if the RR is muffed, but stator/rotor was still working..it would still put out a charge...just not get to the battery. Or...the R/R is ok and stator/rotor muffed..still would not charge battery.
Was looking more to checking the stator/rotor first so might not have to take the side cover off. But agreed..they're "BOTH" essential for the battery to keep it's charge and the R/R is usually the first thing to go. Next to that plug between the two... melting/shorting out.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: SalSageV » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:10 pm

Ok guys will do. It may take me until next week to get to it but I will do the tests. If there is one thing I'm really not good at understanding it is electronics. Just goes above my head right now. No other mods to the bike. The new R/R is mounted in the same place as the old one. Trying to keep everything as OEM as possible because my lack of knowledge on these things.

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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:16 pm

SalSageV wrote: electronics. Just goes above my head right now.



Does to most. Hell..look at "my" description. Kinda a blathering of words. Doing a VTF search should pulled up something you can understand easier than a manual. Nother good place is to get on the electronic section and pose a question to TRV, if all else fails. Good luck and let us know how it went. :bg:
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: mark75 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:36 am

if you should need it, here's a walk-thru on replacing the stator ---> viewtopic.php?f=57&t=7498

when replacing your reg/rec, be sure to make sure it is well grounded [sanded shiny] metal-to-metal contact --- some people use dielectric grease on that connection, but that's a personal choice IMO.
just be sure it's getting good breeze for cooling.

FWIW: why reg/rec gets hot? ... @ or > 3000 rpm the reg/rec is converting ~52 vAC from stator to ~14.3 vDC +/- 10% [~12.2 vDC at idle]
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 am

:yup:
Little FYI I think you may find useful. While the manual suggest using a ruler to hold the starter gear assembly in place while putting the side cover back on, there is another little trick. Well, it's not really a trick, but it not in all manuals and not shown in lotta fiche diagrams on some Viragos.
In the link, you'll notice an 0-ring #4. That 0-ring will go around the shaft (#3). Once you get all the gears/shaft inplace, you will "slide" that 0-ring tight up against the starter wheel (one with the grooves). Long as the shaft if dry, the 0-ring should hold every thing else in place while you get the side cover on. Free'n up both hands. I only mention this as back in the 80s, first time I'd taken the side cover off, then putting stuff back together, came across this 0-ring and had no frikken idea what it was. Naturally, thought it was a seal of some sort. Manuals don't always list it. Eventually found it was just a friction type holder. And, some Viragos eliminated this. Usually the one without the starter clutch setups. That one I couldn't figure out why. Guess engineers love to throw curve balls every so often. So, I'd always put one in. Makes things much more better.
Yea..pretty long winded for such a little thing, but if it saves ya or others from some head scratch'n..it's a good thing.
Good luck on your endeavor.

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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: SalSageV » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:35 pm

OK so I finally did the test you guys asked me to do. At idle I get a read of about 12.25-12.27. When I bump it up to 3000 RPM I'm only getting up to about 12.32. So I'm assuming that is a stator problem? That seems like a big difference to me for just the R&R. I found a Caltric stator/gasket/regulator all in one for like 50 bucks on Amazon that I could get but I don't want to get a bad part when I can buy a quality one for a bit more. My buddy said he likes Caltric's stuff but I want to be sure I get the part I need and get one that will work and last me. Any suggestions?

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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:46 pm

SalSageV wrote:3000 RPM I'm only getting up to about 12.32. So I'm assuming that is a stator problem?



Looks like it. Should be pump'n out into the 14.6+/- v.
I've been using these people for 30yrs.---> https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/results/

Pricey...YES..but they stand firm behind anything and are vary helpful if you got questions.
Scroll down to the vid..gives ya an idea what they're are:---> https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/

BUT..you definitely do want you want and can afford. Know lot of people use Caltric..just don't (personally) know of any follow ups. Just what's on their website. I'm sure there's some out there.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Jake » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:41 am

SalSageV wrote: So I'm assuming that is a stator problem?


Assuming ? That could cost you time and money, you need to test and verify that is the problem. The stator can be checked without taking the engine cover off and will take about five minutes with a voltmeter.

I suggest you read and perform the tests for the stator and R/R are described in Chapter 7 page 147 to page 151 of the Clymers manual, the link is Clymers XV535 to XV1100

Additionally, here are the Haynes XV 535,700,750,920,1000,1100 Viragos '81-94 and Yamaha XV Factory Manual '85 ~ '99 XV700 to XV1100

Then proceed with replacement if it proves bad, otherwise it is the R/R, both need checked for confirmation.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:07 am

Flyingdog wrote:Rectifier doesn't directly keep you battery charged. It rectifies AC to DC for you bikes systems. Soo..I'd say something is wrong with the alternator. And when you're ride, your bike is using up all the battery's juice to run the lights, signals, coils, spark plugs etc etc etc...and "nothing" is going back in.
http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-check-mo ... ng-system/

The R/R is directly responsible for charging your battery. True it also converts AC from the Stator to DC so it can charge the battery, But the above statement is misleading to anyone who doesn't know how these systems work...
OP: Using a DVM, place one lead on the negative battery terminal and the other on the positive terminal with the engine idling, You should see approximately 13+ volts DC, if you only see 12 VDC, they the r/r is most likely the problem. You can disconnect the plug from the stator to the r/r and check the resistance on the white wires one to the other and also to ground.
Check your service manual for proper resistance's.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: mark75 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:23 pm

ditto:
sounds like reg/rec to me.
check all your ground spots are shiny metal-to-metal, [most xv reg/rec are grounded to frame thru its' outer shell so make sure the battery-neg-to-frame good too] but sounds like r/r is fading-out.
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Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe

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'82 - XV750

Time flies whether you're having fun ...
__ :bike: ...
or not ... :fan: ---

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so Laissez les bon temps roulez ... just roll safely

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If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain

New Members Note- The site will allow full access (U/L, D/L, PM, etc) after your 5th post.

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the search may seem or feel ponderous, but it's worth the effort.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 am

Bottom line: As Jake said..be sure you know which part went bad (R/R or Alternator). Testing is free..parts are not.
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: SalSageV » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:11 pm

OK. Did the test to the terminals for the ohm resistance and either I did it entirely wrong or I'm getting .001 ohms of resistance across all terminals that go to the stator. No read between terminals and ground. To be honest I have zero clue if I did this correct. I think I had it on the right setting and did it correctly but I have no clue right now. Between the test on the battery and this what does it look like the problem is? I can't make heads or tales of what is going on. Is it just a bad R&R or is it the stator? Both maybe? I'm not really clear on what these tests are telling me or what I am supposed to be taking away from them to be entirely honest. Hopefully I did the tests correctly so you guys can help me figure out what is wrong.

Will remove and check ground connections to R&R in the next few days when I have a bit of time to get that done and update when I do it.

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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:48 pm

Here..try this. See if it explains this stuff. Kinda long, but it's put in a pretty straight forwards' way.

http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-fully-tr ... ng-system/
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Re: Battery Drains After a Ride

PostAuthor: Jake » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:52 pm

SalSageV wrote:OK. Did the test to the terminals for the ohm resistance and either I did it entirely wrong or I'm getting .001 ohms of resistance across all terminals that go to the stator. No read between terminals and ground.


If you did as the manuals said ( all three have the same instructions ) then .001 is out of spec. You should have 0.5 ohms on each wire compared to the others.
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It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

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