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Scream - electrical issues, starter silent (SOLVED)

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Scream - electrical issues, starter silent (SOLVED)

PostAuthor: faffi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:24 pm

I have changed and relocated the battery. And now the thing do not want to start. All I get is a faint click in a small relay. The voltage actually goes UP slightly when I press the starter button, probably because the lights go out. Battery has 13.2V unloaded and 12.7V with the ignition on. Bike is in neutral. Oil level light flicker when I push the starter.

Another weird thing I noticed is that the ground cable for the rectifier - the unit is mounted to plastic on my bike and needs a separate ground - is actually hot. Not as in warm, but as in positive. The reason I measured it is because I found a cable I had forgotten to connect, and it was live. Is this typical? Or is something wrong? I have not connected it to the negative terminal yet due to this.
Last edited by faffi on Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: CX Rancher » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:47 pm

my thought is that the "ground" for the rectifier9(AND EVERYTHING ELSE) is not complete to the batt negative.
Jumper batt negative to the original battery ground of yesterlore.

And the voltage ON the ground, is that through a digital meter? or will it light a headlamp (load)?

If its one thing that makes me insane and that is a self-powered logic probe with polarity power/ground switched supply.
Gimme a 500mA test light and a fused jumper any day.
A can of either and a hammer and screwdriver.

May not be able to fix it but we'll make it run.
G'Luk !
---Rancher


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Homage to Those We Follow - Rest In Peace Ride At Peace
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(Corrections to my Speeds and Mileage posted before 5/2014 (-10% above 50mph) and (-1.8%mpg) Your Stock Speedo Variation may vary) Corrected by MoDot and TrailTech on Utah Tour. Truth in Posting Law
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Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: faffi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:54 pm

Thank you for the inputs, mate, but I believe my issue(s) must be found elsewhere.

First time I ran the bike, I had not ground the the R/R and the bike ran until the battery went dead.

Lights work as they should.
Brake light works fine.
Indicators work fine.

Starter will not turn.

I use an electronic voltmeter. It shows that there are no drain when I push the starter button. Only a faint noise from a relay.

I have full voltage between the ground/chassis/engine and the positive terminal.

I have full voltage between the wire I used to ground the R/R and the negative terminal on the battery. I have zero volt between that wire and the positive terminal on the battery.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:30 pm

electricity is magic to me, but could the reg/rec be toast?
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Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: CX Rancher » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:43 pm

I know you know more than I do, I'm just letting you know I'm thinking about you.

Electrons, as easy and as stinking dirty as plumbing, as elusive as sand in a fist, I say.
G'Luk !
---Rancher


B Good! GearUP! TwistOn! GearTall RideSmall
Homage to Those We Follow - Rest In Peace Ride At Peace
but Race the Urn, Man

(Corrections to my Speeds and Mileage posted before 5/2014 (-10% above 50mph) and (-1.8%mpg) Your Stock Speedo Variation may vary) Corrected by MoDot and TrailTech on Utah Tour. Truth in Posting Law
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The only Cure for Obsession is another.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: CX Rancher » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:49 pm

faffi wrote:
I have full voltage between the wire I used to ground the R/R and the negative terminal on the battery. I have zero volt between that wire and the positive terminal on the battery.


This sounds not good. can you jump this to battery ground>? or do you think there will be flames>?

Positive voltage through a lamp is still battery voltage but when you ground it it completes the circuit... is the allegory I have braining.
G'Luk !
---Rancher


B Good! GearUP! TwistOn! GearTall RideSmall
Homage to Those We Follow - Rest In Peace Ride At Peace
but Race the Urn, Man

(Corrections to my Speeds and Mileage posted before 5/2014 (-10% above 50mph) and (-1.8%mpg) Your Stock Speedo Variation may vary) Corrected by MoDot and TrailTech on Utah Tour. Truth in Posting Law
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1982 GL500i
1982 CX500T
1982 CX500T show winner
1983 CX650C bad-axx
1983 GL650i
1983 GL650 Std
1983 CX650T
1976 GL1000 Old Skins in New Bones(sold)
The only Cure for Obsession is another.
OR a Divorce, que sera sera
Sex: Male

Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: faffi » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:16 pm

I think I will ground the R/R and if nothing smokes or smells think all his honky dory. Apparently, an R/R can give strange readings when not hooked up correctly.

I still need to find out why my starter doesn't get power.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues

PostAuthor: CX Rancher » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:22 pm

Have a side stand switch ? or the ground it may use more specifically. What powers and grounds the starter relay coil and load sides?
I have no 1100/750 conversion electricals.
G'Luk !
---Rancher


B Good! GearUP! TwistOn! GearTall RideSmall
Homage to Those We Follow - Rest In Peace Ride At Peace
but Race the Urn, Man

(Corrections to my Speeds and Mileage posted before 5/2014 (-10% above 50mph) and (-1.8%mpg) Your Stock Speedo Variation may vary) Corrected by MoDot and TrailTech on Utah Tour. Truth in Posting Law
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1978 CX500 - Luv a Maggot with a Twist
1982 GL500i
1982 CX500T
1982 CX500T show winner
1983 CX650C bad-axx
1983 GL650i
1983 GL650 Std
1983 CX650T
1976 GL1000 Old Skins in New Bones(sold)
The only Cure for Obsession is another.
OR a Divorce, que sera sera
Sex: Male

Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:52 am

the way i read your signature. you removed the 750 engine and installed a 1100 engine?............dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: faffi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:23 am

That is correct. Sorry that I didn't point that out right away. I also have the electrical system from the 1100 - I only kept the instruments and fuse box from the 750 Gen I. It ran fine last year. All I have done now is to tidy up the electrical system by putting the relays in a box and fitting a smaller Lithium battery. Plus probably some error that prevent the signal from the starter button to reach the actual starter.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:01 am

you are using the 750 r/r? i assume yes.
if so then the 750 r/r has
red- battery
black- ground
tan- key on power
yellow- not used
the 1100 r/r just has a red battery power and gets the ground from the mounting point.

the starter relay is needed for the 1100.
the relay has 4 wires
red- battery power
red/white- key on power.
red/white- to the solenoid that has 12v when the key is on and starter button is pressed.
blue/white- ground from the push button.
when the key is on the relay gets 12v from the ignition fuse. press the starter button and the blue/white grounds the relay activating the relay and sending 12v to the starter solenoid..............dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: faffi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:34 pm

I use the 1100 R/R. I am just going to ground the chassis even though it register as a positive power supplier.

I will trace everything in my wiring again - perhaps the white/red has become disconnected. As mentioned, the starter and everything else worked just fine before I replaced the battery and moved the relays inside a plastic box.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: faffi » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:09 am

http://www.viragotech.com/wiring/86_96_us_XV1100.jpg

If I understand the schematic above correctly, as long as the red with a white stripe going to the starter switch gets power the starter should turn, provided everything else is fine? So basically what I am looking for is either a defect starter relay or lack of connection between the relay and the switch?

I base my assumption on the fact that when I push the starter button, the oil level light flicker once and the lights go out and the relay click once.
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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:33 pm

place the bike on the center stand and in neutral. remove the single blade connector from the solenoid. use a jumper wire (fused) from the battery positive to the terminal at the starter solenoid. this should activate the solenoid and turn the starter...............dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: faffi » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:20 am

Thank you, I will try that when I get back in a couple of days :cl:
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Re: Scream - electrical issues, starter silent

PostAuthor: faffi » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:30 pm

The culprit
Image

A lot of the positive wires on this bike have shown lots of corrosion, also this. I didn't notice the issue until I pulled on the wires and one was disconnected from its contact. Now all is good.

Please mark as SOLVED.
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