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Doubt about a engine click

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Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:32 am

Hi guys,

I have been fixing my bike since when I bought it... First I fixed the fuel pump, then the carb jets, the sync screw, the stator... until I changed the front cylinder cam chain.
My bike is running ok, nice accel, running smooth. But I am concerned about the engine sounds. I have recorded yesterday and posted at google drive, public shared here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q7vYzo ... sp=sharing.

Can you tell me is this is a normal Virago 1100 sound?
Oh, I have installed screaming eagle pipes, but I guess it doesn't have anything to do with the sound.

Thanks,
Douglas
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:01 am

It sounds pretty normal to me. Virago engines are noisy by nature. Did you adjust your valve clearances?
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: Arjay » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:56 am

Sounds like one valve clearance is a little excessive.

There is also a scissor gear that might be an issue. It is a split gear that has a spring that is supposed to be loaded with tension prior to slipping on the flywheel and a gear that connects to backside of flywheel.

The tension on the scissor gear is to reduce backlash noise that is created when valve cam lobes release valves. The tight, loose, tight, loose, repeat of the gear train pushing the cam causes a rattle/clatter.

Sort of a shock absorber for the gears of the valve train. I do not know if PO or you removed flywheel or how much spring load is expected. I do believe that when an install helper pin is removed both sets of teeth should engage. One of the split gear teeth touches forward side, the other the backside. So the scissor gear grips both sides of each tooth.

I am only guessing though. I haven't found any in depth info on this scissor gear except in automotive video. Seems its a Japanese invention.

Rj

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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:32 am

Thank you for replies,

Yes, I adjusted the valves about 6 months ago, but I will check it again.
RJ, do you know the PN of this scissor gear?
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:36 am

Did you mean PN 4X7-11540-01-00?
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:29 pm

douglasartor wrote: until I changed the front cylinder cam chain.

I doubt you have a problem with the cam sprocket. Yes, it's spring loaded..but there's "No" load adjustments for that type.
You may wanna pull the cam chain tensioner. See if the plunger still moves and works ok. If you did change out the cam, possible you didn't get the 'forward part of the cam chain tight when the cam chain was installed and everything timed. Chain may be splap'n the guides at idle and the tensioner isn't pushing on the guide, enough. I've come across a guide (not Virago) that had a wallowed out pivot hole. Would bounce only a certain revs, cuz of the cam chain tension was off just atad. Just a thought.
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: Arjay » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:55 pm

You know on second thought listening to the cams click sounds pretty normal till you stuck the camera up close to the heads. Not really a fair recording. Same thing for those who try to record loud exhaust. Its not a true representation, tiny clicks too magnified and explosive booms muffled. The mic has limitations.

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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:52 am

Hi guys,

I guess I discovered the issue... My cams are timed wrong... Both cam chains sprocket holes are pointing down instead of pointing up to the timing mark on the cylinder head!
Yeah, I align my flywheel with the "T" mark for rear cylinder and the "I" mark for front cylinder. I don't know how this happened! I remember timing right when I changed the front cam chain, but now I guess I did something wrong. I also think that this doesn't explain why the rear cylinder is also timed wrong if I changed just the front cylinder cam chain.

Do you know anyway to "retime" the cams without removing the engine? I thought about removing the sprockets from the chains and turn the flywheel until I get the right spot, then put back the sprockets. But this would be a shot in the dark, I would need to try a lot until I get it... Do you know if this could be done? Do you have any better ideias?

Thank you
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: Flyingdog » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:22 am

douglasartor wrote:Do you know anyway to "retime" the cams without removing the engine?


I sure get the feeling something is not being read right..might be wrong though.
You sure you are on the "compression" stroke when aligning up "T" & "I"? Sounds like you're 180° off.

The alignment points for crank key-way/flywheel detents/cam chain gears /cams and their positions, are outlined in a manual. You will have to take the engine side covers and upper cam covers off to align these points. But sure don't see how things got off, if you didn't rotate/move the crank doing the cam.
Don't wanna get ya to deep in the weeds, could be something very simple.... but could poke around here--> https://www.tr1.de/pages/technics_linda.php?techidx=14
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:49 pm

Hi Flyingdog,

Yeah, I checked right. I've read all Linda's Manual and I realized that my bike is really wrong timed. I don't know how can it have been running this way... it's unbelievable...
The cam sprocket times are 180 degrees off. Each one of the cams, front and rear...
Do I need to remove the engine from the bike to time it right? Is there any "easier" way?

Thank you...
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: chrismalm » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:43 pm

Yes, rotate the crankshaft clockwise 360 degrees.
Shazam ! It is Correctly Timed ! :dragon:

PS - Good link Flyingdog ! :GJ:
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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: Arjay » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:40 am

Well, I'm pretty sure I know why it would be running if your timing is 180 degrees off. Thats because of the tci design. The earlier models pre 1990 had two pickup but 1990+ Yamaha found they could change to one pickup. The only difference in operation was the exhaust stroke at tdc sparks too. A negligible consequence of not using 2 pickups. Since yours may be 180 degrees off that would explain why it runs as is. The tci also curves electronically the timing advance, maybe might explain the poor timing at idle. Since advance uses time difference between two metal strips of impulse from the stationary magnet pickup (reluctor), yours is using timing of previous cylinder impulses and might have a slight staggering effect. When you fix it please record the results, very interesting.

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Re: Doubt about a engine click

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:15 am

All right, Arjay, I will record and post here. Thank you for your explanation.
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