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Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

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Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:35 am

Hi guys,

I have same issue showed at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8ij5X07B4s. When I push the start button I can hear the starter motor working noise, but no cranking at the engine. Yesterday I removed the left side engine cover, inspected the gears between the primary and the starter motor, reinstalled the gears, and the engine could crank again. But today I tried to start the motor and the stater noise with no crank came back again. I think the gears between the starter motor and the primary are too slipped, with bad contacts, not engaging.

I don't know how, but some guy at this topic: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=54788 Solved the problem fixing the solenoid.

Anyone have a clue about how could this be a solenoid problem?

I guess this is a problem with the gear idler 2 (PN 5A8-15517-00), because the teeth are too chopped, almost 45 degrees at the contact with the primary gear. But if anyone have an ideia about the solenoid, this could save me some money! :cl:

Thanks!
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:44 pm

sounds like my '86-700 did when it had a bad starter-clutch [sprag type] --- push the button and starter would only whine, but it could be the solenoid not kicking that (s-c) in.
remove the "dog bone" shaped cover to see what happens when the button is pushed.

see #1 >>>
https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/yam ... ter-clutch

here's a walk-thru for getting into the left side [for stator replacement but procedure's the same] >>> viewtopic.php?f=57&t=7498

if the solenoid [#1] is kicking it in, OK. if not could be the solenoid is bad. :con: >>> https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/yam ... ectrical-2

test solenoid to see if it moves with battery jump --- tho solenoid could be going intermittent :ider:
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:06 am

Thank you for the reply, Mark.
When I push the start button the solenoid extremity with the torx screw goes in and stays like that while the starter motor keeps at "zzzzzzz".
Besides, I removed the left side cover, reinstalled the gears between the starter and the primary, and the motor started fine for a while. Then, I thnk the gears slipped and the problem returned.
Here a picture of one of the gears.

Image
Last edited by douglasartor on Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: mark75 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:32 pm

your pic wont display for me :con:

now that you have the side case open you can inspect them.
[#1] the starter clutch should allow easy rotation in only one direction. if it's bad it will spin either way, like a bearing.
>>> https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/yam ... ter-clutch

if the teeth on #4 or #5 [IMO] now would be the best time to replace them (with new if possible).
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe


Time flies >>> whether you're having fun __ :bike: or not :fan: ---

Any day above ground is a good day.
so Laissez les bon temps roulez. just roll safely --- Semper Vigilans...always watchful

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." ... Confucius*

If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain


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The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members, so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:18 pm

Can you see it now?
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:06 pm

There seems to be some wear on the teeth of the #2 idler gear, but not enough to cause the issue you describe unless the flywheel is equally worn.. Sounds to me like your starter solenoid is not engaging all the way. As Mark says, now is the time to replace the idler gear with the new version if you want to spend the money. http://www.partzilla.com ... https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamah ... 652b5b962b
I suggest you pull the dog bone cover off and put pressure on the right side of the lever (as you face it), and see if the starter engages the engine. If so, you need a new solenoid.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: mark75 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:15 pm

douglasartor wrote:Can you see it now?



yes. pix working now.

shows a little bit of use, but other-wise looks fine as far as I can see.

:yup:
doing as Bill suggests will tell you if the solenoid or the clutch isn't working correctly.

if assisting allows it to turn-over as normal, as he said you need a new solenoid.
if it goes in and still makes the "zzzzzz" noise instead of turning-over then it's the starter clutch.
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe


Time flies >>> whether you're having fun __ :bike: or not :fan: ---

Any day above ground is a good day.
so Laissez les bon temps roulez. just roll safely --- Semper Vigilans...always watchful

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." ... Confucius*

If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain


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The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members, so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: douglasartor » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:40 pm

Yeah, it didn't looked like a big wear, but I can't find another cause...
Now I am really concerned about what Bill said, because the starter motor begins to work right in the opposite way! It works when I unscrew the torx screw on the right side of the lever, that is when I put pressure on the left side! Is this not supposed to happen?
Is there any chance that this problem could be caused by an wiring problem? This started to happen after some mechanic worked at my headlights, but until now I couldn't see any causality.

Anyway, the starter motor works but can't engage the motor. When I keep pushing the start button the motor kind of start to engage, but in a slippery way.
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:38 am

If you put pressure on the drive lever while pushing the start button, what happens? Do you mean the torqx screw that goes on the drive lever?
The only wiring that could be a problem with this is the handlebar ground from the start button which operates the start relay. The start relay then provides 12v to the solenoid to activate it. Otherwise, it could be a loose ground somewhere. Check and clean all grounds in this circuit.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
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Re: Starter motor rotates but engine does not turn over

PostAuthor: mark75 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:11 pm

the sprag-type starter clutch can work intermittently as it dies. the "teeth"(sprags) inside it are worn or broken.
one time you press the button and the start motor just spins, the next time it catches and works as it should.
"Over the Mountains of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride" ... E.A. Poe


Time flies >>> whether you're having fun __ :bike: or not :fan: ---

Any day above ground is a good day.
so Laissez les bon temps roulez. just roll safely --- Semper Vigilans...always watchful

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." ... Confucius*

If you don't read the news you are not informed.
If you read the news you are misinformed.
... Mark Twain


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The views, opinions, and experiences expressed in this post are mine and may not necessarily represent views and opinions of other VTF members, so feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
mark75
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Posts: 15724
Images: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:57 am
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