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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:23 am

There's some news to come... I hope to be able to finish this exhaust today:

Image

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http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:36 am

Done. Some minor cosmetical work is still due, but functionally it's all there and it fits like it should.

Image

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http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:39 am

Looks great! When do you think as test ride will happen?
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:39 am

If the weather clears up: this weekend. Currently we're on the edge between rain and snow (again).

If not, I will have some time to install softer valve springs and do some other mods. Either way, the weekend will not be lost. :cl:
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:05 pm

Right, the attempt to build Mk.8 with a bigger collector failed, because my exhaust tubing vendor couldn't deliver 50mm (2") tubing with the correct radii. This made my original goals for building a new exhaust shrink down a bit to: 1) mustn't touch anything (especially not the chain-gaitors) 2) all the sleeves should point in the right direction to prevent sealing issues 3) provide room for an O2-bung (even though I do not plan to use one in the near future).

Image

Among the design criteria was to plan for the necessary room to install LONG sleeves to have everything seal up properly and of course two downpipes of equal length.

Image

The afforementioned O2-bung, right after the first Y-collector

Image

And what it looks like right now (almost) done:

Image
More pictures and more background infor on the Blog: https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-next-version-of-mk7-exhaust.html
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:07 pm

Gregg, once that thing is dialed in I'll buy a set.

That is amazing!Image
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:27 am

Thx for the kind words!

Btw.: The prototype to this exhaust is available via the for-sale section, as quite frankly, due to job-obligations, I don't think I will be building any exhaust for other people. Still have to do a proper solution for the sidecar and I suspect my dad will play his "daddy-" card and gently twist my arm to build a replacement exhaust for his poor man's Guzzi (CX500) and when I am done with that (considering my current pace) it will most likely be October or November...

Really curious to see how it will perform. I have to "adjust" the centerstand though to make everything fit.

Quite a few maintenance posts coming next. :;:
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:57 am

http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:38 pm

Sounds great!
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:37 am

Now that's (sort of) a first: working against performance and towards everyday reliability and longevity.

Step 1: As suggested by Sepp Koch, I have started playing around with softer valve springs to give the valve train a chance to live a bit longer as the seatpressure of the stock valve springs, especially in a 700 or 750 is through the roof. I only shaved off about 10kg (100Nm) of seat pressure, but every bit helps.

Image

As you may or may not remember, I replaced the base gasket, with liquid gasket in an attempt to get the piston closer to the squishband in the cylinder head. This works perfectly, but it has the downside, that every time you loosen the head, you have to re-seal the cylinder foot as the cylinder pulls up on the unsupported side, which is a bit annoying. Luckily the liquid gasket I chose can be cleaned off quite easily with some brake cleaner and a brush, so it was maybe an extra ten minutes per cylinder to get everything squeaky clean again. (Making sure no oil leaks onto the mating surfaces or not dipping your finger into the gasket goo is much more of a challenge!)

Image

There is a slight shift in timing, even with a brand new timing chain, so ultimately (once the chain stretches a bit), I'll probably have to make an adjustable cam sprocket, but until then, we'll just earmark this as a mod to shift timing towards more torque. :cl:

Image

Last but not least: a softer timing curve with less advance. I had some detonation issues on the old engine, so tuning everything towards running a bit softer should be a good thing, especially with the tightened up squish, I hope to have finally found a way to keep detonation in check. Oh and that curve from 8000 to 9000rpm going to zero, that's my little life-saver as the rev-limiter on Ignitechs works fine until you overshoot it, e.g. by missing a gear. (At least in older versions it did and I am too much of a chicken to find out, if it's good now.)

Image

Bit more on the blog (as usual): https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-new-tr1-engine-softer-valve-springs.html
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:16 am

So there's both a bit of a verdict and an outlook missing.

The verdict, the engine's performance is great and with the tighter squish even in Summer heat (40°C at times) the oil kept below 110°C, because the overall tighter squish made the engine run a lot nicer. The slightly longer gearing allowed me to cruise on the Autobahn at 4000-something RPM, still a bit higher than I absolutely liked, but good enough, if I am honest. With the flatslides it got (very) close to 200kph, which was sort of my personal goal for this engine. And to be honest it probably would have cracked it, had I had the chance, i.e. a stretch of free German Autobahn ahead of me. I converted back to roundslides a little later mainly because it meant getting rid of the second set of cables for the choke and there were one or two spots, which I just couldn't dial in perfectly as the PERFECT needle for my needs doesn't seem to exist. The roundslides run a tad richer in the mid-range, which helps with the engine running nice and cool and yes, they kill just a bit of power, so it tops out at 185-190kph. Still as this is my daily, it's a trade-off I can live with very well.

Here comes the outlook part: Unfortunately even though the bores on my Virago-cylinders were still *just* in spec, they were pretty much on the limit and if you thrash the old girl good and dear (as you do, when you have that power available to you), she started to be a lot less frugal on the oil than I wanted her to. When going to MotoGP in Spielberg (about 300km one way from where I live), a bit of classic Autobahning led me to topping up the oil with 0.5L extra, which means about 1.5L per 1000km.

As such (and because I still had a v-star lump with a broken gearbox sitting around) I decided to go down the v-star route. Unfortunately, I've spent the last month moving my workshop, because I was informed on very short notice that the building I used to be in will be sold in November and torn down...

Expect updates this weekend... I already started working on the bike :cl:
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Arjay » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:30 pm

Just curious, is casting aluminum an option so to copy the heads? Seems like an aluminum cast is fairly easy.

From what I read so far, swapping out my xv1100 jugs for 700/750 jugs and reducing cc on heads gives about an extra 20+ hp? (not including cam or porting intake)

If you copied the heads I'm sure they would sell.

I suppose the timing chain slack is negligible, probably absorbed by tensioner.
Last edited by Arjay on Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:38 pm

The V-Star cylinders are the way to go. They're Nicasil lined and wear a very long time. The greater fin area for additional cooling capacity is nice to have too.

Really, just transplant the V-Star crank, rods, cylinders, pistons and heads. The result it a wonderful motor.
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Re: The

PostAuthor: nanno » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:51 am

Arjay wrote:Just curious, is casting aluminum an option so to copy the heads? Seems like an aluminum cast is fairly easy.

From what I read so far, swapping out my xv1100 jugs for 700/750 jugs and reducing cc on heads gives about an extra 20+ hp? (not including cam or porting intake)

If you copied the heads I'm sure they would sell.

I suppose the timing chain slack is negligible, probably absorbed by tensioner.


The extra 40hp (no TR1 makes 70hp, the best stock ones make about 45hp), mostly come from a combination of: increased compression, tightened squish, different exhaust, different carbs and programmable ignition.

Casting your own heads is financially not viable with used heads being around the 100USD mark per piece.


Hellgate wrote:The V-Star cylinders are the way to go. They're Nicasil lined and wear a very long time. The greater fin area for additional cooling capacity is nice to have too.

Really, just transplant the V-Star crank, rods, cylinders, pistons and heads. The result it a wonderful motor.


In the making as we speak, incl. a novel idea on how to bore out the cases. (Unfortunately not mine) :cl:

I hope to have the new engine together by tomorrow evening and running on Sunday.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:54 am

I shall leave this here - the accompanying blog-post will be available in approx. 6 hrs from now. :cl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f123I0JdPVQ
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:12 am

Looking good!
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:45 am

I am sorry, but I have to be a bit efficient for once:

V-Star engine build (part 1) - mainly about turning down cylinders and modifying the camchain tensioners to work with the camchain guides out of a XV

https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/10 ... art-1.html

V-Star engine build (part 2) - salvaging the parts from a BT1100 engine, incl. a quick 'n' dirty guide how to take an engine apart

https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/10 ... art-2.html

V-Star engine build (part 3) - the actual engine build, with crank bearing replacements and cylinder case boring

https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/11 ... art-3.html

V-Star engine build (part 4) - fried coils and ignition - meant as a warning that you shouldn't trust brand new spark plugs and went back to stock ignition.

https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/11 ... art-4.html

V-Star engine build (part 5) - killed a starter and a solenoid and also sealed up the oil-pressure-switch with some liquid gasket.

https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2019/11 ... art-5.html

Verdict on the new engine:

Reducing the rotating mass by a third (compared to the heavy Virago 1100 crank that was in there before), has got a tremendous effect. It may have lost notable amounts of low-end torque, but I can't say for sure, as the engine spins up so quickly that in real-life terms it doesn't matter anymore. With the heavy Virago-crank it was pulling like a tractor from 2000rpm onwards, whereas now it just runs past this rev-range and hits 3000rpm very, very fast and then almost instantly revs up 5000rpm. It is, undeniably, quite a different kind of driving experience and after ironing out the jetting (which is more related to going back to stock ignition), I expect the whole package to be substantially faster than before.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:53 pm

Very interesting, Greg :GJ:

Less flywheel effect will increase, not reduce torque, but can make an engine run harsher, especially under load and low rpm.

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewto ... 54#p237313
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Hellgate » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:19 pm

Mine motor is very smooth. I assume it was balanced?

The big flywheel thing may make sense for a 1,000 hp car, but for 75hp motor it really slows it down.

Instead of grinding the find down, I filed the edges of the oil cap down. I figured plastic is easier to shape than aluminum.
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:41 am

faffi wrote:Less flywheel effect will increase, not reduce torque, but can make an engine run harsher, especially under load and low rpm.


Yep, plus add a bit of jetting issues down low (running a bit lean) and you have a slightly shaky and not very torquey engine... (in short: you're right) Interesting enough, with the heavy flywheel it just stomped along, now when you don't have enough RPMs it will shake rather unhappily, which is a good indicator to get your act together and ride it like you should. :cl:

Hellgate wrote:Mine motor is very smooth. I assume it was balanced?
The big flywheel thing may make sense for a 1,000 hp car, but for 75hp motor it really slows it down.


I think it boils down to what you see in the engine. For a massive-torque, low-rev chopper engine, i.e. Virago 1100, it totally makes sense and it will tempt you to ruin the engine, by chugging along at low rpm and just using the "grunt". If you really want to make some power and rev it to 8k, it's no real use. Also the engine is still very tight after 125km. I've now adjusted the carbs with a wideband o2-probe and it's a lot better, but it'll be a good 200-300km before I can really say where we are performance wise. (And I have to repair that Ignitech I fried...)

Hellgate wrote:Instead of grinding the fins down, I filed the edges of the oil cap down. I figured plastic is easier to shape than aluminum.


Yes, but I wanted to fit another oil-thermometer as it gives me some data to relate to in terms of how the engine does and feels. I admit it wasn't the world's most sophisticated job.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

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