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The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

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The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: nanno » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:03 am

I guess most of you know Faffi on here, if you don't check the "new posts" button. Faffi had shown some keen interest in my other engine build and after a bit of back and forth has got me to agree that my old engine would be far better off in his posession roaming the roads of Norway than sitting on shelf in the back of my tiny workshop waiting for the unlikely case of being needed again.

Part One is basically the disassembly story and part two will be the reassembly and (test-)installation in my Turbo-TR1-chassis to make sure everything works as it should.

Just to give you an idea: The engine is my trusty old Everyday-TR1 original engine with roughly 110,000km on its back, which was running fine except for a bit of an appetite for oil and a slight knock, which I originally tracked down to the bottom end and some "not-quite-so-slight" oil-leakage from the rear cam-chain-tensioner. (Which was just down to a torn gasket, that I might have missed for a while - it's also very hard to get to, because obviously it was on the rear cylinder.)

Step one was to drain out the oil as good as possible. As you will see by the oily-rags, we didn't exactly a good job on that. We being my dad and myself. As at least the very first few steps, i.e. lifting the engine on the bench is a two-man-job as is splitting the cases.

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Using the term "cleaned" might be a bit much, but the worst oil and grime has been rubbed off from the top half of the case.

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Put the rear cylinder on TDC to make disassembly a bit easier and also to check for camchain wear.

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Near perfect - there was some stretch in the camchain, but as I replaced that two years ago (or so) that hasn't stretched any more than the initial stretch.

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Even though it should be fairly obvious, I like marking the brackets on the rear cylinder left and right as it avoids a lot of confusion.

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No point in denying that this engine liked a sip of oil every now and then I guess. To be fair at this point I dreaded the worst like broken rings or the like, even though the cylinders looked absolutely fine, you could even see a bit of the original crosshatch pattern here and there on the cylinder walls.

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The front cylinder looked slightly better, but with that amount of oil-buildup on the piston it came as no surprise that it was knocking a bit, when really, really hot.

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With the cylinders pulled from the engine, it was about time to give the rods the casual "pull-test" and nothing really moved. I was planning to do the conrod bearings anyway, but most likely, if this still were my own engine, I'd left the bottom end as is as there was no immediate need to do anything. (One thing I really didn't notice, when pulling apart the engine is that the squish actually worked nicely in pushing the mix away from the cylinder wall as you can see in the clean spots on the side of the pistons.)

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I decided to do minimally-invasive surgery this time, which means leaving the crank in the left crankcase. Still this meant fully stripping the right side and at least removing the oil-pump on the left side.

Also in the picture my very first modified 9-disk-clutch. (Still a thing o' beauty, if you ask me!)

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Left side, with the shifter mechanism already removed. Contrary to popular believe it is quite doable to remove the oilpump, without removing the rotor, when you undo the single philipps-head bolt that's holding the pump together.

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(Sorry for the blurry picture! :ops: )

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With clutch and right-hand primary drive removed it's a simple case of removing all the bolts holding the engine together. (Note the three bolts INSIDE the engine, one of which is hidden behind the oil-pump!)

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Fast forward quite a few minutes and we have the engine case cracked and the conrods removed from their place. It can actually be done without removing the crank from the cases, even though it is much easier with the crank out. That being said in order to reach the nuts for the rear conrod, you have slide it up and put a bearing cap back in as a spacer, so you don't twist and turn anything.

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Now the hard lighting makes the bearing shells look a lot worse than they really are, but there's no doubt they've covered their fair share of miles. Still the crank looked like new and after a short casual glance at the spec-sheet a two-size smaller set of shells (black instead of green for those, who want to know) was selected.

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And that pretty much ends the whole operation for 2018. Conrods have been re-installed and tightened to spec, gearbox is back in after finding NOTHING out of the ordinary, not a single gear suffers from pitting or worn gear dogs and can simply be reinstalled.

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So all that's left is to clean up the mating surfaces a bit more, oil the gears and bearings and put the bottom end back together and wait for the sealant to cure. Once that's done the outside of the engine will get a good wash to look representable again. In other words, what does it take to run a (tuned) high-comp, long-stroke TR1 engine for another 110,000km? A set of bearing shells and some fresh rings, because quite honestly, that's the only thing really amiss on this engine. The oil-scrapers have the equivalent amount of tension of a worn out elastic band.

Link to the blog-post (which is EXACTLY the same text, as I was lazy and more or less just copied it - but still new posts every week, usually on Friday, Saturday or Sunday): https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2018/12 ... -part.html
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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nanno
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Bike year & model: 1981 Yamaha TR1
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1984 XT500 4Valve (Austrian Tax saving edition)
1979 RD250/R5/DS7-hodgepodge (in bits)
Sex: Male

Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: faffi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:56 am

I guess nobody will follow this with greater interest than me :cl:

Do you have a theory why (only) the oil rings have given in?
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Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: nanno » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:03 am

faffi wrote:I guess nobody will follow this with greater interest than me :cl:

Do you have a theory why (only) the oil rings have given in?


Age quite simply put. It's a huge bore and it seems to be a rather common problem with XT600s (same bore), XV1000, XV1100 and even modern day XVS1100. I suspect there's also an inherent metallurgical problem with these rings as the wave-spring loses its tension due to the heat cycles. Back in 'ye olde days, I fixed a similiar condition on my Dnepr by gently stretching out the compression spring, which worked quite ok for another 5,000km or something thereabouts. My dad's XT500 had the same issue and it was smoking really, really badly.

And just to top it off: It was the same on the set of pistons, I installed in my mule-engine. Shame you can't buy the oil-scrapers alone, the compression rings are absolutely fine on your set.

Engine has been assembled and gear-selector shaft has been mirror polished and is probably shifting nicer than new. Going to tackel the cylinders tomorrow as I found the spare set of piston rings, that I stashed away for this engine. (Who knew? BT1100 and XV1100 rings are exactly the same...)
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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nanno
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Bike year & model: 1981 Yamaha TR1
1982 Yamaha TR1 Turbo
1977 XS 750 Sidecar
1984 XT500 4Valve (Austrian Tax saving edition)
1979 RD250/R5/DS7-hodgepodge (in bits)
Sex: Male

Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: faffi » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:59 am

Interesting, although cars often have even bigger bores and can last for hundreds of thousands of kilometers, so perhaps a quality issue on Yamaha's behalf? Anyway, nice to know my engine is pampered :cl:
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Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: nanno » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:01 am

I don't really know, why it is the case I'll show you the old rings, when you come by, maybe you end up with a better hypothesis than me. But I suspect it must be some sort of a metallugical problem.

I had a go at the heads and the only thing I can say: Polishing valves and combustion chambers pays off. Maybe not in performance, but for the poor sod, who is supposed to clean those heads. That was maybe a 10 minute affair to have them all shiny again.

Where there's light there's also a bit of darkness, the front cylinder seems to have been knocking really badly at least once, as one side of the piston is peppered with small indents where the aluminium of the cylinder crown overheated. Obviously nothing deformed and the rings are still moving freely in their grooves, but that was a bit shocking to see. Even though I am pretty convinced that most of this happened, when one of the vacuum plugs flew off a while ago and I had to limp from the metal shop to my own shop.

(And once more, my camera is still in the workshop, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow to see more pictures of the engine.)

The only thing not related to your build that I will do is measure the clearances without a base gasket and then afterwards with a base gasket installed to find out, how much further up the piston would come in the cylinder.

As a result of the detonation issues, I will definitely adjust the ignition map to be a bit more tender with your engine, than what I ran in the past though...

Cheers,
Greg
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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nanno
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Bike year & model: 1981 Yamaha TR1
1982 Yamaha TR1 Turbo
1977 XS 750 Sidecar
1984 XT500 4Valve (Austrian Tax saving edition)
1979 RD250/R5/DS7-hodgepodge (in bits)
Sex: Male

Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: nanno » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:17 am

It is safe to say, that I know this engine very well. It has been my daily and my testbed for the last few years. As such I felt confident that nothing would come up, once the engine was in someone else's possession. One thing that bothered me over the years was the somewhat notchy shifting. I had measured the endplay of the gearbox shafts 5 or 6 years ago and couldn't find anything amiss, so I simply assumed, that when I pulled the transmission, I would find one or more worn or slightly bent selectors. (Don't imagine this gearbox to be unshiftable, but the gearbox on the turbo is just slicker...) After carefully inspecting the selector forks, it became rather apparent, that these were in as near perfect condition as they could be. The selector shaft on the other hand had some scratches and some oil-buildup on it.

Bring out a tool my dad (and various other people make jokes about, why I have it in my possession) - a polishing mop:

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On the top is a very good low-mileage shaft and on the bottom is the (by now) mirror-polished shaft

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... which now slid into its place by its own weight and when manually spinning and shifting that gearbox it felt... :cl:

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After some oiling of all the gears and a careful testrun of the gearbox (I've had some bad experiences in the past), it was time to clean the other side of the engine cases and then put them back together.

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Unlike the grey Yamabond, I prefer to use some red-silicone based sealant, which stays more flexible, is easier to remove in the case of a rebuild and seems to seal a bit better. As you could see in the very first pictures, the engine was rather oil, but I don't think any had come from the seam of the two engine halves.

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Cleaning parts is (I think) nobody's favourite, but polished combustion chambers do have their moments in this respect. From crusty bits to almost done in less than 10 minutes (for both heads). There was still some more to do but, that was literally after going over the head once with a rotating nylon brush. Also you can see how much colder the inlet valve is during operation, as it stays all shiny, whereas the exhaust-valve will darken from the heat-cycles.

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An interesting find was to be made on the front cylinder. I had heard some detonation, which I suspect was down to a combination of: somewhat optimistic ignition advance, lean mixture and oil/carbon deposits on the piston tops in connection with a very large distance to the squish-area.

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After a bit of discussion of the likelyhood of failure, we decided to take no risks and install a better piston instead of this one. As a result, I now have a piston, that I may conduct some welding experiments on, to find out how much (if any at all) it will deform, if welded up on the crown to make a piston with an all-the-way-round squish-ring, specifically for my type of engine combo. (If it works out, you'll surely see it on here ...)

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As the rear cylinder was fine, I started with a quick hone-job just to give the new rings something to bite into and then checked the ring-endgaps to determine, whether they came gapped correctly from the factory.

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Fresh set of rings installed...

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... and plenty of oil, probably my only genuine sin, I am guilty of, every single time, when building an engine. But I admit, even after doing more than my fine share, I am afraid of seizures.

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As the other piston needed some replacement, I had to call in some favours to get a good piston in the right size, so would be a good fit to the cylinder. (Well aware, that normally you do this the other way round...)

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Of course at this point the bottom end had more or less been completed, so a few precautionary steps had to be taken, to prevent the clip from falling into the engine.

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The gudgeon pin was dimensionally ok and only needed a bit of a cleanup and polish.

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Looking good again – after taking some measurements on both cylinders, I decided to try my own engine without a base gasket as the clearance is well big enough, yet it would get the piston close enough to the head to make the squish work a lot more efficient.

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And lastly there was the question on the condition of cams and rockers, as they tend to suffer from oil-starvation. In short perfect. The roller cam conversion and the modified union bolt both raise the oil-level and the amount of oil-pumped into the head and in short... perfect.

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A bit of moly-grease does wonders as an assembly lube and protects cams and rockers during those first revolutions until the first fresh oil reaches the head.

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And that's where we are now. The engine is basically assembled.

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By now (after those pictures were taken) all is done and the engine is patiently waiting on the bench (plugged up with oily rags), waiting for the snow and salt to go away and be installed in a chassis and test-driven to make sure everything is as it should be.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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nanno
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Posts: 1135
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 4:06 pm
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Bike year & model: 1981 Yamaha TR1
1982 Yamaha TR1 Turbo
1977 XS 750 Sidecar
1984 XT500 4Valve (Austrian Tax saving edition)
1979 RD250/R5/DS7-hodgepodge (in bits)
Sex: Male

Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: faffi » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:49 am

Really looking forward to have an engine better than new :bg: :cl:
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Sex: Male

Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: nanno » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:58 am

faffi wrote:Really looking forward to have an engine better than new :bg: :cl:


Yeah well, me too. Let me know, when you find one. :cl:

As a meterological sidenote: snow is starting to melt and there's lots of rain, so I secretly hope that in the second half of the week it stays this way, as this keeps salt in check and should make it possible to have little testride up and down the road to establish that everything is as it should be.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
User avatar
nanno
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Posts: 1135
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 4:06 pm
  Flag
Bike year & model: 1981 Yamaha TR1
1982 Yamaha TR1 Turbo
1977 XS 750 Sidecar
1984 XT500 4Valve (Austrian Tax saving edition)
1979 RD250/R5/DS7-hodgepodge (in bits)
Sex: Male

Re: The Norwegian Job or Faffi's finest (new engine build)

PostAuthor: faffi » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:32 pm

With more power and smoother shifting, I have hopes it will outperform a standard TR1-donk :):

Fingers crossed for some good weather!
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