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The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:07 am

Thursday is gonna be the day of truth. Expect some pictures by then. And as it stands now, FedEx is going to be on time, so I'll also have my set of new TM38-carbs to play with.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:32 pm

In short: XV700 heads are on and work, the carbs actually arrived with in 2.5 days from Florida and if you use the 45 degree cable bends, you can use this generice 2in1 throttle cable without modifications. With that being said, the bike goes like stink and I will probably not change back soon but at a later date put those heads on the turbo-TR1's engine and then test both bikes/engines back to back.

The 700 heads produce notably more torque due to the smaller ports, but I am not sure, whether the flatslides might actually be helpful to offset the flow-issues at max. rpm that I experienced with the VM38 roundslides. Either way, I am very pleased with the way things are going.

The more pressing question: What was wrong with the welded up heads? I honestly don't know. I can only speculate that there are some turbulence issues as the piston says perfect squish and the head says the same except for showing signs of being rather rich. Also the engine ran very, very hot. What happened at full throttle was best described as... interesting. There was notably less torque at low rpms though. (below 3000rpm)

Image

Image
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:12 pm

Isn't that quite a bit of carbon buildup after such a short distance, or is that normal? This is the MT07 after 50000 km

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTgMkts8zUg
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:24 am

Yes it is, but that's at least partially down to the fact that I oil up the parts a bit too thoroughly when assembling. It's a bad habit of mine. In another 1000km that would probably have burned off.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:24 pm

Thanks for explaining :):
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:40 am

Btw.: Something interesting must have happened with the engine in that video (I haven't watched it until now), as they are only showing the piston skirts and not the tops. Also unlike my parts, they washed off all the parts.

Oh and a more extensive post on my blog going live in a bit more than 8 hrs with heaps more photos.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Link to blog update http://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2018/

Very interesting :GJ:

Have you had a chance to test the "new" lathe, BTW, among all the TR1 work?
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:08 pm

BTW, here is one engine that hasn't been cleaned before photos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-isKUjWBQ
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:11 pm

faffi wrote:Have you had a chance to test the "new" lathe, BTW, among all the TR1 work?


Nope not a single minute. :-( At the very most, I had some more time to clean the ways of the lathe.

Btw.: That's the direct link to the latest blog-post:

http://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2018/10/ ... -from.html
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Crazy_Russian » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:57 am

just binge read this whole thing... you are giving me horrible ideas. I'm in definite need of a higher 5th gear and more power and torque. so, i think i will start looking for xvs1100 internals :-D
can't wait for updates regarding the sparkplugs and the heads
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:48 pm

As you saw, I later then used XV1100 parts, if it's your first XV-engine build (or you don't have a fully equipped engine shop and have to pay for certain mods), go with older Virago stuff.

That being said, I have a second set of welded up heads and if you want, you can have them. Thing is, it'll be a while until I find the time to dig into them. I will very soon start a new engine for a certain someone on here and that will have to be done before digging into anything else. Also my dad wants me to dig into some of his bikes and get them up to a comparable standard as my old junk.

With that being said, let's get back to some more info on what happened (for those of you, who follow the blog, nothing new, sorry).

Those welded up heads are all about learning for me and of course, make heaps of power. As you can see in the pictures below, I've got some mad heat issues in the head and at the same time it acts as if it were running really rich. If you look closer at the piston, you will see by looking at the shape of the carbon deposits, that the swirl I wanted to create worked beautifully. (Tear-shaped residue on the piston.) It got a bit hotter than I like, but the clean sides on the pistons indicate that the combustion is centered nicely in the middle and there are no hotspots on the sides, which was my biggest worry with such a huge combustion chamber.

Image
Image

So the "mule" will now be set up like a good everyday engine should: very torque-oriented. But first a bit of damage on the XV700 heads had to be cured. One of the fins had broken off, when I had the heads shipped over from the US. Old grime and dirt was so deep into the pores of the ally casting, that it was an absolute nightmare to weld.

Image

Bit of the old flapwheel action made it look representable enough for the underside of a cylinderhead. :r:

Image

... and some more prep-work like running a die over all the studs and a tap through all the threads.

Image

And (of course) new valve stem seals and lapping in the valves.

Image

From here onwards it was a pretty quick route down from this:

Image

to this:

Image

Unfortunately, good Gen1 cams with little wear on them don't exactly grow on trees or in other words, I only had exactly one set left and so I had to move them over from one set of heads to the other.

RPMD9_ekq4ACLcBGAs/s1600/P1200799.JPG" alt="Image" class="resize_me" />

New heads on.

Image

Just because you've done dozens of these things, doesn't mean you're not allowed to take a note on the inside of your engine cover. (Also it came out as a nice arty-farty-shot with the lights 'n' all :bg: )

Image

And then ultimately introducing you to the three-legged-throttle-cable-spider (cables being oiled with super-thin sawing machine oil) and even if you don't believe me: It makes one hell of a difference.

OPkYPT5YE6SQrMrSiACLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_1696.JPG" alt="Image" class="resize_me" />

The new TM38-86 carbs finally being set up and ready for action. (see separate thread "Euro style TM38" for questions on these)

Image
Image

... and installed:

Image

One of the funniest things about the new engine that I only noticed yesteraday was, that for the first time in about 6 years, I now have an alternator, which works on all three phases. Now how's that funny? Well simple, I was so used to the charging system being insufficient, that I totally got used to riding around without lights or only on LED pilot lights, that when I did some measurements yesterday, I was a bit shocked to find out, that the bike now actually charges below 2000rpm just fine. (Not the worst of surprises to be honest - especially as my sidecar currently isn't charging at all...)

Blog: https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2018/10 ... -from.html
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:00 am

Could it be running rich with the welded up heads, that again was corrected with hotter spark plugs that again caused overheating in spots? Or timing not spot on?

I learned that the only way to verify spark plug range is to cut off the threads and look at the top of the insulator (the part usually hidden by the threads). It should have a ring brown-ish for about 1 mm in width, and the rest should be clean-ish with no melted in specs of metal. I did check the plugs in my XV1100 this way when I removed the old standard style plugs and fitted iridium plugs. The old plugs were just as the book said they should be, although they were old and had not been submitted to a chop test.

Whether this is correct or not is beyond my abilities to verify, but those in the know say you can look at a spark plug to verify the correct heat range and also jetting.
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:38 am

Timing should be good. Sparkplugs show no signs of overheating. Running rich? Somewhat unlikely, yet still possible. I will do some turbulence tests with dry ice and see how it performs.

But first a different engine is due. :cl:
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: Den. » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:03 pm

faffi wrote:... but those in the know say you can look at a spark plug to verify the correct heat range and also jetting.


http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html


/

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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: JrZook » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:15 pm

Some descent soot on the heads/crowns and plugs. Really does look like you are running quite rich somewhere in the rev range to get that sort of powdery buildup.
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: faffi » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:45 am

Den. wrote:
faffi wrote:... but those in the know say you can look at a spark plug to verify the correct heat range and also jetting.


http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html


/


Nice link - the bottom picture shows what I was referring to.
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: turbodog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:58 am

Sorry to jump in late, so this may have been mentioned previously - but what timing curve are you using? I would expect that if you raised the compression considerably, that the stock timing is too advanced.
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Re: The "mule" Nanno's new naturally aspirated motor

PostAuthor: nanno » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:07 pm

Much the contrary. Quite a bit more advance to actually benefit from the higher compression.
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43227 - Nanno's accumulated findings (and blatant show-off) - infos on my TR1's, my performance and reliability mods and a bit of show-casing of the stainless steel exhausts I build

http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at (My blog - Greasygreg.blogspot.co.at)
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