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No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

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No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:19 pm

I've been banging my head against this one for more than six months now.

SYMPTOMS: Bike readily turns over, but does not spark.

CONDITIONS:
- New battery (on tender, 14v)
- Unspoiled fuses
- regular resistance in ignition coils (12-13kohm+ 5kohm resistor caps)
- ignition coil hot wires show ~12.35v
- TCI hot wire shows 12.35v
- new plugs (NGK, resistorless)
- shorted killswitch (altogether disconnected, bike shuts off on key only)
- almost all relays within spec, although none of the 3 cut-off relays I have match the manual spec (2 OEM and 1 new)
- pickups within spec
- stock TCI swapped with ignitech, neither makes a difference
- extra starter motor ground
- cleaned connections
- sidestand switch is fine

SPECIAL NOTES:
- I swapped the old bendix starter clutch for the 2nd gen solenoid-actuated starter mechanism
- Using my digital multimeter, tested voltage between boots and plugs while cranking, reads zero. I need an analog meter to read this?
- I haven't checked the clutch switch, but after reassembly the clutch lever action seems awfully tight.

Anybody see what I'm missing?
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:41 pm

"Using my digital multi-meter, tested voltage between boots and plugs while cranking, reads zero. I need an analog meter to read this?"
No, you need an O-scope to see it. It's 20 to 30,000 Volts and it will blow a meter in a nanno second!
At this point, I would check with an Analog VM to see if you can see a pulse of Ground on the Grey and Orange wires that go from the TCI to the coils. If that is not there, the coils are not being triggered to discharge. I would bypass the safety switches after you make the above test and then run the test again...;
I assume you have check compression on the engine!
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:13 pm

Amateur mistake! At least the coils didn't fire...

I finally bought an analog VM and measured voltage between the orange and gray wires between the coils and the TCI.

No signal. I tried again with the black/white TCI wire disconnected, with the same result.

Does this means the pickups aren't signaling? Even though they measure within resistance tolerances?
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Jake » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:36 pm

Cyclosapien wrote:I

SPECIAL NOTES:
- I swapped the old bendix starter clutch for the 2nd gen solenoid-actuated starter mechanism


I suspect that may be your issue. What year is the 2nd Gen side cover ? Single pickup or dual ? Did you use a spacer for the pickups ?
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:57 pm

Jake, that makes a lot of sense. To quote cr_roger in another thread:

The left hand side cover with the hardware (long shaft starter and gears, sliding forks, ect) from XV1000 84/85 and XV1100 86/87 fits the XV920 82/83.

I'm using a 1993 XV1100 sidecover, but it looks to be the same part # as a 1987 XV1100. The holes all line up, though some of the bolt lengths changed...

Guys, am I screwed with this part? Are there shims I should know about?
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:39 am

I was wrong I'm mixing up my parts receipts. My current sidecover is from a 1985 XV700.

I believe it's a dual pickup?
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Jake » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:39 am

Cyclosapien wrote: My current sidecover is from a 1985 XV700.




If you upgraded to the 2nd Gen starter, you cannot be using the '85 700 cover, it's the same as the RH and RJ cover.

It has to be from the 1000 or '86 and up 750/1100.

To get to the root of your problem, you need to tell us everything you did to do the starter upgrade.
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:46 pm

I did the regular upgrade, passing the battery hot (+) through one side of the battery solenoid before continuing to the upgraded long shaft 4 brush starter motor. The other side of the battery solenoid leads a wire that both triggers the starter solenoid and activates the starter.

- 1984-1999 OEM Solenoid Assembly 5A8-86110-50-00 (2nd gen starter)
- "Yamaha Idler Gear Set 3LP-W1551-00-00" (matches desired p/n, but I've now learned those don't mean a lot)
- "1984-99 XV700-1100 OEM Starter Motor W/Gear" 5A8-81800-10-00, included starter clutch
-1985 XV700 Side Cover

I re-used the old pickups, which screwed directly into the 1985 XV700 crankcase sidecover. The pickups must not be aligning with their trigger points on the flywheel.

Guess I'll be shopping for the correct side cover...? Unless I can think of a clever way to measure for a spacer.
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Jake » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Maybe you should post a pic of the side cover you are using. There isn’t anyway that starter will work with an ‘85 XV700 crankcase cover.
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Jake » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:00 am

I took the time to look up a few things for you, this back and forth like this isn't helping you much.

You say you are using an '85 XV700 crankcase cover, well here what it looks like:

81 to 85.jpg


That same design fits the following:

Yamaha Motorcycle 1983 XV920K Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1983 VIRAGO 750 - XV750K Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1982 XV920RJ Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1982 XV920J Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1982 VIRAGO 750 - XV750J Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1981 XV920RH Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1981 VIRAGO 750 - XV750H Crankcase Cover

Yamaha Motorcycle 1985 VIRAGO 700 - XV700NC CRANKCASE COVER (1)

Yamaha Motorcycle 1985 VIRAGO 700 - XV700N CRANKCASE COVER (1)


Yamaha Motorcycle 1984 VIRAGO 700 - XV700L CRANKCASE COVER (1)

Yamaha Motorcycle 1984 VIRAGO 700 - XV700LC CRANKCASE COVER (1)

As you can see, the 920 RJ is the same as the '85 700.

You should have something like this:

86 up.jpg


That is what all 700/1100 models use from '86 onward. Presumably, that what you have, there isn't anyway to do the second Gen upgrade ( with the exception of '84/'85 XV1000 complete system ).

Now, the problem I believe you have is the pickups need shimmed or the stator from the later model.

Rather than me posting what has already been discussed, I'll give you these links viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21714&start=60 and viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54789

Please let us know if that solves your problem.
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:54 pm

Thanks Jake, that's super helpful. I'll look into it this weekend.

The ebay seller I purchased the cover from had it mislabeled, but it looks to be 2nd gen:

Image

Sorry to waste everyone's time with my shoddy research, but I really appreciate your educated perspectives.

Updates to follow...
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Jake » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:02 pm

Cyclosapien wrote:Sorry to waste everyone's time with my shoddy research, but I really appreciate your educated perspectives.


My time isn’t wasted if you get it running. I hope your next post is one that says “ Whoopie ! “
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Cyclosapien » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:52 am

Whoopie! She lives again!

I had a bicycle mechanic friend machine some spacers out of brass stock.

Running quite rough, but fuel issues are way easier to figure out than electrical ones, IMO.

Thanks guys!
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Re: No Spark - Electrical Riddle! XV920RJ

PostAuthor: Jake » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:07 am

:GJ:
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